The Capitol Fax Blog » Question of the day

Wednesday, Jan 14, 2009

* The setup…

Three months ago, Mayor Daley moved to soften Chicago’s cell-phone-while-driving ban — by allowing offending motorists to hang onto their licenses and contest their tickets by mail or administrative hearing.

Now, a North Side alderman wants to get tougher.

At Tuesday’s City Council meeting, Ald. Vi Daley (43rd) introduced an ordinance that would raise the fine for talking and driving without a hands-free device from $75 to $100.

Motorists whose cell phone conversations cause accidents would pay through the nose. The fine would go from $200 to $500.

* The question: Do you think these two proposals are reasonable? Explain.

- posted by Rich Miller

36 Comments

- Very Reasonable - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 10:53 am:
Absolutely. No law is too extreme for penalizing people in the following categories:

1) Smokers
2) Pedophiles
3) People who use cell phones while driving
4) Drunk drivers
5) People who don’t wear seat belts
6) Toll scofflaws

Political career need a boost? Put your boot to the throat of one of the unprotected classes listed above and ride the popularity wave.

- Fan of the Game - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 10:54 am:
Not reasonable at all. Drivers are exposed to a myriad of distractions while they drive–accident scenes, eating, listening to/ adjusting the radio/CD/MP3 player, fighting children in the back seat, etc. What makes talking on a phone any more dangerous? How does the City plan to enforce the law? It’s simply too non-sensical to think about. Will they bring back the foie gras ban next?

- Is he gone yet? - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 10:55 am:
I dont think the proposals are reasonable. Raising fines doesn’t deter- it generates revenue.

I just wish politicians would admit it and not act like they are “getting tough”.

- Redbright - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 10:55 am:
I think the action needs to apply to everyone involved in the accident. I’ve seen phone-absorbed pedestrians walk into moving traffic and I’ve seen phone-talkers drive in a way that would cause others to hit them.

I also think that insurance companies should crack down on this by refusing to cover accidents that involve a cell phone talker.

- wordslinger - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 10:57 am:
I’m for anything that gets drivers off the phone. They’re a menace.

The National Safety Council wants to ban use of hands-free cell phones in cars. They say talking on the phone while driving ‘increases accident risk by four times.

I believe it. I won’t talk on the phone when driving. Like Jim Morrison said, “keep you eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel…the future’s uncertain and the end is always near.”

Let it roll, baby, roll!

- Lawman - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:02 am:
The City’s ordinance should be unconstitutional. It is not written properly. It states “while using”. What does that mean? If you look at the clock on your phone, that would technically be “using”. Government treats everyone like they are children. Stop with all of the asinine laws.

9-40-260 Use of mobile telephones.
(a) Except as provided by subsection (b) of this section, no person shall drive a motor vehicle while using a mobile, cellular, analog wireless or digital telephone.

(b) The provisions of the ordinance shall not apply to:

(1) Law enforcement officers and operators of emergency vehicles, when on duty and acting in their official capabilities*.

(2) Persons using a telephone with a “hands free” device allowing the driver to talk into and listen to the other party without the use of hands.

(3) Persons using a telephone to call 911 telephone numbers or other emergency telephone numbers to contact public safety forces.

(4) Person using a telephone while maintaining a motor vehicle in a stationary parked position, and not in gear.

(c) Any person who violates subsection (a) of this section shall be subject to a fine of $75.00, provided however, that if a violation occurs at the time of a traffic accident, the driver may be subject to an additional fine not to exceed $200.00.

- John Bambenek - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:04 am:
While we are at it, ban passengers. What do you think people do while in the car with each other?

- playk8 - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:07 am:
When will they enforce it with cab drivers or are they exempt? Every cabbie seems to have a hand held stuck in his ear.

- Amy - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:17 am:
get them off the phone! we all know it’s a pain when that business call long expected comes when you are driving in Chicago and you’ve forgotten the hands free device. but everyone has a story about some nitwit person driving while talking on the cell phone and causing some problem. and it’s happening more and more with incoming text, text messaging, Blackberry, i phone and all the other devices we somehow got along without before they came along.

but, the story would be best with statistics to convince. Just as the pre seat belt level of deaths and injuries was a convincing factor for mandatory seat legislation, more stats and less emotion and revenue raising gambits would be appreciated.
not just a nanny state, but a fact based safety state, please.

- grand old partisan - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:20 am:
FACT: Talking on a cell phone with a “hands-free” device has been proven to be just as dangerous as talking on a cell phone without one. It is the conversation that distracts and endangers you - not the physical act of holding a phone to your ear.

This is a pointless half-measure that - even if vigilantly enforced - would not save any lives. Whether intentionally or no, it serves no purpose beyond generating revenue for the city.

- Justice - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:27 am:
Controlling cell phone use while driving is not the problem simply because it is in your hands. Your mind is not on the road and both hands on the steering wheel any more or any less than when applying makeup, gesturing to fellow passengers, eating, any other activity except for focusing 100% on driving. Changing the radio or looking at a gps or blackberry will be cause for fines in our near future, as will glancing out the rear view mirror or looking at larger and larger billboards advertising the fact that Illinois licenses plates are made by our governors.

- Six Degrees of Separation - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:27 am:
Let it roll, baby, roll!

All night long!

- The KQ - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:33 am:
I drive the Veteran’s Memorial Tollway (355) every day. While there are times that I get stuck behind a slow driver who is gabbing away on their phone (I just love when they talk with their hands) they are not necessarily the ones I worry about. The distracted drivers I worry about are the ones putting on their makeup or reading while they are driving. I have seen women with makeup bags in their laps, putting on eye liner while driving in the left lane. That drives me nuts. Somehow, I always find time in the morning to get dressed and made up while at home.

- Anon from BB - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:44 am:
If it’s the conversation that’s distracting, then like John Bambenek said, let’s just ban passengers while we’re at it.

I know, everyone needs to now drive vehicles with only one seat - for the driver only. Car pools will be outlawed! My goodness, can you imagine what might happen if someone was talking to three or more people! It would be carnage on the highways and byways!

- TR - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:50 am:
Empirically speaking, driving while talking on a cell phone is as dangerous as driving moderately drunk. Not super-drunk (over .2), but still over the legal limit. So presumably both should be treated the same: either we raise the DUI level, or ban talking on the cell while driving.

- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:52 am:
HA-HA!

from the Sun-Times today, per the Nation Traffic Safety Council:

“Drivers using cell phones are four times more likely to get into accidents.

Roughly 2,600 people a year die in car wrecks involving cell phones.

And there is no difference between talking on a cell phone or going hands-free.”

By encouraging drivers to switch to hands-free and promoting it as a “safe” alternative, Alderman Vi Daley’s ordinance flies in the face of the most current research.

Dumb, dumber, and dumbest.

I’d love to have some panoramic footage of just ONE city council meeting, showing all of the activities that Vi Daley and other Aldermen engage in while voting on critical legislation, including talking on their cell phones during debate and surfing the internet.

Talk about endangering the public. Now THERE’S a cell phone ban I could support.

- cover - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:53 am:
Why doesn’t the City of Chicago just institute a $10 per day per resident fee for living in the city, with an exemption for anyone below some income threshold, instead of having a myriad of small taxes, fees, and onerous fines?

I assume the city does not have the power to tax or levy a fee on commuters, or it would have been enacted many years ago. The closest it could get (as far as I can remember) is to issue parking tickets to randomly-chosen license plate numbers, which might explain why so many downstate motorists used to be shaken down by the city.

- Ghost - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:56 am:
What fan said

- Excessively rabid - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 11:59 am:
Where do we draw the line with this? I’m as annoyed by people talking on a cell while driving as the next person - I’ve seen people using one while riding a MOTORCYCLE, for crying out loud! - but they aren’t the only devices that cause problems. A few years ago I was hit by someone who was fooling with his radio. Get rid of radios? I don’t think so. Then there are all the other gizmos demanding your attention in today’s vehicles. Any of them can pose a dangerous distraction under the right circumstances. Whatever we do, it can’t be city by city. The rules of the road need to be substantially the same throughout the country. It would all be a lot easier if people used some sense.

- prowler - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:00 pm:
If there is an exemption for Law enforcement it just goes to show that this is a revenue generator only. If it is truely a safety issue the only exemption (for obvious reasons) should be calling 911.

(1) Law enforcement officers and operators of emergency vehicles, when on duty and acting in their official capabilities*.

- zatoichi - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:21 pm:
Great idea! At a minimum I would add amendments to include using the steering wheel as a drum while any music is playing (handsfree power guitar must remain an exception), eating/drinking anything (especially fries in a container), smoking, looking out the side windows at something for more than 5 seconds, not looking in the rearview mirror less than 3 times a minute, driving the speed limit or less in any non-right lane, using the wheel as a desk while reading maps/newspapers/magazines, application of make-up/combs/shaving at anytime, selecting the next CD from a container/visor, changing radio stations, talking to the car next to you, hand signals of any kind, sunglasses at night, bass that vibrates terribly, checking your recent purchase to read the package, looking in the back seat for any reason, changing clothes, closing your eyes, using a towel for your face, any hat that limits your vision, anything less than two full hands on the wheel (disability certs available from your physician), intimate personal activity while the car is moving (keep it G rated), any window with more than 50% decal coverage, balloons/sleds/boxes/ice/snow/smoke that block vision.

- Six Degrees of Separation - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:25 pm:
Prowler-

Law enforcement is also allowed to break the “normal” speed limits in hot pursuit (hopefully not getting into or causing a crash along the way), ambulances likewise are allowed to get a critical patient to a medical facility. It’s a societal tradeoff.

- Thomas Westgard - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:26 pm:
A fine for distracted driving would be reasonable, but what’s happening is that limited categories of distraction are being singled out for no good reason. You don’t want people fiddling with their CD or MP3 players either, or arguing with a passenger, or eating, or anything else that distracts them from focusing on driving. But we select out cell phone use - for what reason?

What’s funny is that, somewhat hypocritically, I use my iPhone as my sound system while driving. The actions to use the iPod function aren’t really any different from the actions to use the phone function - I’m just pushing adjacent controls on the same device. Yet, one is illegal and the other is legal. It really makes no sense to ban one and not the other.

- chimack - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:29 pm:
Here’s the deal.
Vi had four challengers in 2007. That caused a run-off. She won the runoff. But her run-off challenger ran against Vi’s candidate (her chief of staff Chuck Eastwood) and lost. So Vi knows she will have challengers again in 2011 and she knows her “guy”, a proven loser, won’t likely win her seat if he is appointed to replace her. SO, Vi has to look like she is doing something for a change in order to tell her constituents she is working for them.

Now to this ordinance. It does not address any of the real concerns of the 43rd ward. Those concerns would be enforcement of all of the laws regarding creating drunks (overserving/licensing additional bars in the ward) and enforcing laws against public drunkeness and the crimes yuppie drunks commit nearly every night from midnight on.

- chimack - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:30 pm:
Noticed the ambiguity in my previous post.
VI’s chief of staff LOST the committeeman’s race and her run-off challenger won.

- James the Intolerant - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:31 pm:
If the police are not going to enforce the law, which they clearly don’t now, what’s the difference.

- Amy - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:38 pm:
maybe the guy who ran the stop sign and hit the small child was on a cell phone. that case was one of the things that made Vi squirm.

- Skeeter - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:40 pm:
I fully support this well-reasoned ordinance, and hope, in turn, that Alderman Daley supports my “Ban Bright Shiny Objects That Might Be Distracting to Drivers When In A Car Or Near A Roadway” ordinance.

My research on this is continuing, but so far I have determined that Bright Shiny Objects cause distractions that lead to many, many accidents (or near-misses) each and every single day.

Now is the time to ban bright shiny objects. Our safety depends on it!

- Skeeter - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:42 pm:
For the record, my actual objections to the ordinance are:

1. It is already covered by laws against negligent driving, and adding one more category does not do anything to advance the cause; and

2. This should be done at the state, and not the city, level.

- gail - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 12:45 pm:
I strongly support getting touch on cell drivers. I’m living proof cell phones and driving don’t mix. I was on my cell trying to dial and drive on a two-lane road and not going more than 20 mph but in the second I looked down to dial and looked back up, a crossing guard appeared with six small children in the street. I slammed on my brakes and rammed into a van that was perilously close to the kids. I learned my lesson with that close call. I have not used my cell phone while driving since. They are bad news.

- VanillaMan - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 2:05 pm:
I prefer hands-free anyway, so that I can turn and yell at my kids fighting behind me as we eat Taco Bell on the expressway.

- babs - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 2:47 pm:
Amy,

I don’t understand why a driver who hit a small child would make an alderman (or any elected) squirm, was she in the car or a friend or what? How is it her responsibility? You are dreaming about how you are represented.

- plutocrat03 - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 5:10 pm:
more a revenue grab than a safety enhancement.

The aldermen/women are compelled to ‘do something’ abut stuff.

Another tax which will hurt the poor more than the rich

- Amy - Wednesday, Jan 14, 09 @ 7:14 pm:
babs: i’m speculating. the death of the child near Lincoln Park was all over the news. it caused quite a stir about traffic near the zoo, stop signs and if i know about it this must be news because I don’t even live in that ward. i don’t expect that from my council member, but many in Lincoln Park do.

- Beowulf - Thursday, Jan 15, 09 @ 9:07 am:
Normally, as a Republican, I would struggle with this. I dislike government intervention in just about everything. But, in this case, it is very much like the helmut law for motorcyclists. The greater good overwhelms my belief in individual liberties. Don’t wear a helmut or feel free to talk on your cell phone but only if there is ZERO possibility that you will touch upon the lives of the rest of us. And, we know that this is not the case.

Incidentally, when cell phones first came out I used to argue with my brother-in-law who constantly was on his cell phone talking when driving or doing just about anything. I told him that he was highly likely to cause an automobile accident and kill himself (or somebody else). I also told him that some scientists had a theory that constant cell phone use might cause brain cancer. He just shook his head and ridiculed me for my concerns.

Incidentally, I attended my brother-in-law’s funeral last month. He died from brain cancer. Was there a “cause & effect” relationship due to his constant cell phone usage? I don’t know. I can only say that for my wife and myself, we will make our cell phone calls “pithy” and infrequent in the future.

- Anonymous - Friday, Jan 16, 09 @ 8:54 pm:
There are good reasons why people must use their cells and you can not regulate phone uses.

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