1. - wordslinger - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:01 am:

   What’s the source of outrage over ACORN and SEIU? Even if the entire ACORN operation was thoroughly corrupt, it’s still small potatoes. And what did SEIU do to anyone?

   Do either of these groups impact the vast majority of citizens in any meaningful way?

   Given everything else going on at local, state, national and international levels, what gets people so riled up about these guys?




2. - VanillaMan - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:03 am:

   OK - politically these people are stupid on this issue, I’ll give you that.

   But let’s remember that the issue is relevant, and by playing stupid with it, doesn’t minimize the seriousness.

   That has been the way both parties have screwed these things up. They get an issue caused by a lack of smarts from the other party - so what do they do? They play it just as stupid, minimizing the issue and turning the whole thing into a political issue, instead of a real issue needing real bipartisan solutions.

   The party caught in a trap goes all out to confuse the public, and the opposition demonstrates an inability to handle the issue like adults either.

   There are real reasons voters are cynical. Watching a clown car full of clown firemen tumbling over themselves and ending in a pie fight, doesn’t mean the fire is any less serious.

   Focus on the corruption - not the messengers!




3. - 47th Ward - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:07 am:

   ===But let’s remember that the issue is relevant, and by playing stupid with it, doesn’t minimize the seriousness===

   I’m with Wordsliner. What is the issue VMan, and how is it serious? ACORN’s recent videos are disturbing, but given its long record of pretty good service, I don’t understand the outrage.

   Can someone please tell me why ACORN is the Communist Party of the 2000s?




4. - Easy - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:11 am:

   Good service–give me a break. The ACORN board of directors refused to disclose massive embezzlement by the CEOs brother. Then systemic Voter fraud allegations and now this–a tax counseling system for a crew out of “risky business”. When the ACORN board was ok with overlooking criminal activity by its own board members, it is no wonder that mentality trickled down to its field staff.




5. - Anon - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:26 am:

   I thought Cap Fax said a week or so ago that ACORN was not operating in Illinois…maybe it was just the head of it resigned or something or was it closed and re-started?




6. - Adam Smith - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:34 am:

   Give me a break. If an organization that was a fully integrated political partner of the GOP had been definitively shown to be fundamentally corrupt (everyone has known for some time that ACORN was never careful about rules in its ardor to elect liberal dems) everyone would be in an even bigger lather and Rich Miller would be leading the parade. Quibble about the details, but the recent ACORN scandal shows a systemic corruption in the organization that, while it may not tar every person associated with the group, certainly makes it a valid issue.

   You can all crawl into the minutae to try and equivocate ACRON/SEIU’s partnership with the Dems but it won’t undo the damage to the Democrats.

   Are the Republicans being a little ham-fisted? Absolutely! But every party and party organization always piles on issues like this. Did Democrats try to tie every GOPer to George Ryan? No, they would never do that!




7. - Screwball - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:41 am:

   Look before you leap indeed.

   Republican U.S. Rep. Mark Kirk announced Friday he will hold a news conference calling on the U.S. Census Bureau to sever its ties to Illinois’ largest union, the Service Employees International Union, because, Kirk says, the group is too close to ACORN.

   The union endorsed Kirk’s front-running Democratic rival for the Senate seat, Democrat Alexi Giannoulias, the previous day.

   Up until ACORN became controversial for alleged vote fraud during last year’s presidential election, even Republican administrations funded the group.

   Kirk himself voted in 2005 to approve a $140,000 earmark for ACORN’s New York office to fight teen delinquency, SEIU’s political director Jerry Morrison said.

   Mark Kirk looks more and more like just another political opportunist who likes to scream at the wind. This isn’t a below-the-radar Dan Seals race and he’s likely to get eaten alive. But what do I know, I’m just a screwball.




8. - Ghost - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:49 am:

   So the GOP is drawing on Hynes campaign for strategy.

   it is interesting to watch the GOP smashing itself to bits in what should be a campain season with its advantage




9. - Thomas Westgard - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:51 am:

   We should take a look at who takes donations from organizations that have been prosecuted for doing bad deeds. Xe aka Blackwater, anybody?




10. - Deep South - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 9:55 am:

    The GOP, at the state and national levels, seems to be latching on to anything that will make the Democrats look bad and in the process they are really getting their panties in a bunch. Until they come up with alternative ideas, an agenda, etc., they very well may be left in the dark. I mean, Where’s the beef?




11. - shore - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 10:05 am:

    beth coulson was endorsed by the seiu and I’ve argued on team america’s blog she should be hit for it. None of the campaigns seem to have gotten the message.

    Kirk is one of the few members of the House with 2 press secretaries so it’s kind of shocking he keeps making these amateur moves.




12. - VanillaMan - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 10:17 am:

    What is the issue VMan, and how is it serious? Yeah, like that example you just gave. Those caught in the dirt want the rest of us to explain in detail what the dirt is, and why anyone should care about them playing in it. I don’t let my pre-schoolers play me like that, so why should I let you?

    but given its long record It does have a long record, doesn’t it? That rap sheet has been growing longer by the day for a few years! Don’t insult the communists either. They had better standards than ACORN.

    it is interesting to watch the GOP smashing itself to bits in what should be a campain season with its advantage When I read that, it reminded me of Tokyo Rose logic - but she was a better speller.

    We should take a look at who takes donations from organizations that have been prosecuted for doing bad deeds. Xe aka Blackwater, anybody? That is the other thing people do when they are caught in dirt - they fingerpoint and claim others are doing it. Try using that excuse the next time you get pulled over for speeding, and see what the Officer tells you as they smirk at your feebleness.

    Until they come up with alternative ideas, an agenda, etc., they very well may be left in the dark. What’s the alternative to ACORN? Gee! Where are we going here? If you ask your Democratic congresspeople why they have just permanently scrubbed future ACORN funding, they will give you plenty of real, legal alternatives. Honest, the Democrats wouldn’t be running from this five-alarm fire if they had a tinkle to aim at it.




13. - VanillaMan - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 10:19 am:

    The best thing for the Democrats to do with ACORN is stop talking about it! The longer this mess is in the news, the more harm that could come.

    Pretending it is all about nothing, and arguing about that just keeps the Democrats looking like they have more to hide. Take your losses people, and move on!




14. - D.P. Gumby - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 10:28 am:

    The ACORN fantasy is yet another non-issue dreamed up by the GOP to avoid talking about anything substantive. It is like the fantasy of “voter fraud” used to justify laws like Indiana’s picture ID designed to keep Democratic voters from the polls (which was just struck down by Ind. Courts) or the Florida felony voter rolls “clean-up” that disenfranchised thousands of voters. The GOP outrage is that ACORN registered voters that were no GOP’s natural constituency, so they were on the hit list. The Swiftboating of ACORN. And ACORN wasn’t prepared for the blitzkrieg.




15. - Nutts - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 10:52 am:

    What about the money ACORN receives through Cease Fire Grants? How much did they receive? It looks like there could be much more funneled money to ACORN than meats the eye. How many other programs received money that ACORN was working with and receiving money from? Say what you will, but the comptroller said that no “contracts” were awarded to ACORN that they were aware of, but, they completely ignored approved grants.

    http://www.illinois.gov/PressReleases/ShowPressRelease.cfm?SubjectID=3&RecNum=3061




16. - 47th Ward - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 10:53 am:

    ===What is the issue VMan, and how is it serious? Yeah, like that example you just gave. Those caught in the dirt want the rest of us to explain in detail what the dirt is, and why anyone should care about them playing in it. I don’t let my pre-schoolers play me like that, so why should I let you?===

    First of all, what example are you referring to? What dirt am I caught in? Nobody is playing you as far as I can tell, except maybe Fox News.

    ACORN was fine according to Republicans like Mark Kirk and others until when? Oh, until a crafty little operative went undercover and taped some ACORN morons givng criminal advice. Maybe it has something to do with Obama’s loose connection, a payment his campaign made to an affiliated group, a voter registration drive he led in 1992, the fact that he was a community organizer. I don’t watch Fox VMan, I was sincerely hoping there was more to the story.

    Oh, voter fraud. Yes, ACORN was in the news recently for that, but I’ve seen a lot of info that suggests it was more voter registration fraud (fraud being too strong a term), and not actual election fraud. Oh, and the mismanagement issue that involved embezzling funds or something.

    Is that all there is to justify this as the Great Threat to the Republic that your outrage and the outrage of other dittoheads? Sorry, but I don’t see it. That doesn’t mean I don’t see that ACORN is a troubled organization.

    It means I don’t believe this manufactured controversy is worthy of all of the pixels wasted on discussing something so minor.

    Health care, jobs, Afghanistan, Iranian missles, climate change, Iraq, the middle east: the are controversies I can get my teeth into. ACORN? Sorry, but I still don’t get it.

    Unless it has something to do with organizing poor people. Then it makes some sense that the right wing is outraged. Rather than assume the worst in you, VanillaMan, I wanted to see if you could tell us what exactly warrants your outrage over ACORN.




17. - Deep South - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 10:55 am:

    ==The ACORN fantasy is yet another non-issue dreamed up by the GOP to avoid talking about anything substantive.==

    My point exactly. Hey VanM….where’s the beef?!?!?




18. - Nutts - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 10:55 am:

    “meets the eye” - Oops




19. - Rich Miller - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 11:00 am:

    ===What about the money ACORN receives through Cease Fire Grants? ===

    Received, not receives. That press release was from five years ago.

    Again, for the slow-minded, ACORN Illinois is out of business. Has been for two years. Pay attention, please.




20. - Screwball - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 11:00 am:

    The best thing for the Democrats to do with ACORN is stop talking about it!

    Says the guy on the defensive.




21. - well - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 11:02 am:

    I was a little shocked when I read about the 140k earmark too, Rich. But then I looked at where it came from. It was added to the 2005 consolidated appropriations bill bill in the conference committee. That bill clocked in at over 1600 pages. The ACORN grant was two lines.

    Add to that the fact that the House voted on the appropriations bill the same day that the conference committee reported the bill out, and there was no way anyone could have known what all was in there.

    If anything, this shows that the earmark process needs to be reformed, something that Kirk has repeated pushed for.




22. - Rich Miller - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 11:04 am:

    ===If anything, this shows that the earmark process needs to be reformed, something that Kirk has repeated pushed for.===

    Except when he was voting for them.

    C’mon, that was just too easy. He’s against earmarks but he voted for a gigantic bill that he couldn’t have possibly read that contained tons of earmarks. He’s against ACORN, but he voted to give the group earmarks in that very bill.

    Pick a side.




23. - Nutts - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 11:12 am:

    ===Again, for the slow-minded, ACORN Illinois is out of business. Has been for two years. Pay attention, please. ===
    I would argue that ACORN is still around as “SEIU” and “Action Now”

    From ACORN-Illinois web site:
    March 21, 2005: “Illinois ACORN members support the organizing work of SEIU Local 880. The union, which grew out of ACORN organizing more than twenty years ago, has been organizing home childcare workers in Illinois for almost a decade.”

    The Link:
    http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=8636

    Action Now has the same executive director as ACORN did when it dissolved. It appears that they just renamed ACORN-Illinois, Action Now for some reason. It does make you wonder.

    ===That press release was from five years ago.===
    Why would a press release from 4 years ago not play into a debate on corruption within the democrat controlled House and Senate and Governors Office? It’s their budget not just Blagojevich’s budget. They had control not just Rod.

    I guess it’s all how you interpret it.




24. - wndycty - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 11:34 am:

    Nutts:

    1) Action Now was founded by the former executive director of Illinois ACORN, who left because she was uncomfortable with the leadership. She distanced herself from ACORN voluntarily.

    2) For you to make your point you would have to demonstrate what, if any, wrong doing occurred at Illinois ACORN during the former executive director’s time there.

    3) Beware when you play that guilt by association game, it can come back to haunt you, just like it did Kirk and other Republicans who have had various associations with ACORN over the years.




25. - VanillaMan - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 11:40 am:

    If you folks think this is a non-issue, and that voters are not bright enough to differentiate the subtle nuances you bring to the debate - then don’t bring it up. Every time you do, you lose.

    When these three GOP legislators first brought this up for Illinois, I wrote that they should drop it. That was two weeks ago. My position hasn’t changed.

    ACORN is a flaming public image mess. Whoever wants to be seen around it - loses. Why do you think your heroes have all abandoned it? Let the GOP dance around the fire - they will just look crazier as everyone else has moved on.

    If it wasn’t a real issue, you wouldn’t have seen the wholesale abandonment of this organization by it’s sugar daddies. I’m glad they did this. The quicker the Democrats abandon this, the better it will look to the public that this stuff has been handled.

    So stop trying to spin it. Take your losses and move on. The US Congress has!




26. - Rich Miller - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 11:41 am:

    wndycty is mostly right.

    I would only add that the executive director and the lead organizer left the state group because they believed there was corruption and wrongdoing at the national office.

    Since these two people were appalled enough at wrongdoing to leave a group they had been associated with for several years, I think Nutts’ automatic assumption that they ran ACORN IL in a corrupt manner is dubious, at best. I’d rather see some proof first. None has been offered in the least. Only guilt by association. That ain’t enough to be demanding some sort of official investigation.




27. - 47th Ward - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 11:57 am:

    ===If you folks think this is a non-issue, and that voters are not bright enough to differentiate the subtle nuances you bring to the debate - then don’t bring it up. Every time you do, you lose.===

    Oh, so that’s the game. Fox News, conservatives in Congress and the GOP IL House members, and now Mark Steven Kirk himself, continue to raise this issue and VanillaMan tells Democrats not to bring up the subject. Who’s playing who?

    For the record, I agree that voters are smart enough to figure this out. For those of us who aren’t receiving “news” from Fox though, I thought you could tell us what exactly the problem was with ACORN that justifies a House bill to defund any organization that is accused of fraud (that was the clean-up bill after the first unconstitutional ACORN bill).

    Watch out for how that legislation might come back to bite many, many federal grantees and contractors. Talk about using a bazooka to kill a gnat…




28. - Nutts - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 12:27 pm:

    ===I’d rather see some proof first===

    I have a feeling the proof is on the way. Already there is enough info to carpet bomb legislative districts for weeks.




29. - VanillaMan - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 12:50 pm:

    Oh, so that’s the game. Fox News, conservatives in Congress and the GOP IL House members, and now Mark Steven Kirk himself, continue to raise this issue and VanillaMan tells Democrats not to bring up the subject. Who’s playing who?

    I already address that. Please read what I wrote earlier. My statement doesn’t support a partisan view of this.

    Let the GOP dance around the fire - they will just look crazier as everyone else has moved on.

    I’ve always said this since it first came up.

    Are you people lawyers who can’t handle not being able to spin this? You can’t spin this. It’s dead. It’s over. Move on. Who cares if FoxNews followed up Breitbart’s publication of these videos? FoxNews didn’t do this, ACORN did. Take your losses and don’t bring ACORN up anymore, or you will keep it relevant. It can’t be old news, when you guys keep harping on it.

    I didn’t care when “60 Minutes”, “20/20″ or other news organizations revealed scandals, I don’t care about the messenger. I care about the scandal.

    Congress took the right steps. If you do not want any more problems with this, or don’t want SEIU to start looking bad too - move on.

    There are not enough hypocracy to overcome the video, so fingerpointing to GOPers won’t overcome the pounding negatives that the Democrats have already gotten over this. That pounding will stop when you guys stop trying to spin this dead cat.

    If the GOP keep wanting to bring it up, they look silly unless the Democrats want to continue spinning it.




30. - 47th Ward - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 1:07 pm:

    Sorry VMan, I’m still confused. Earlier you called this issue “relevant” and “serious.” Now it’s a dead cat.

    Which is it?




31. - Ghost - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 1:19 pm:

    this whole ACORN thing in IL is just nutty.




32. - Team Sleep - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 1:23 pm:

    ACORN has become a boogieman (sp?) for people who live in areas where ACORN would more than likely never (or never have) operate(d). But I think the real concern in smaller, more conservative areas of the state comes from a perception - real or imagined - of ACORN’s political affiliations and voter fraud allegations. For someone like Mark Kirk, who is most certainly getting whacked by very conservative factions of the GOP, going after ACORN full-bore will win him style points south of I-80. But when he is making comments like this north of I-80, I must scratch my head.

    And I won’t comment about the SEIU. I value my health. :) That was a joke, by the way.




33. Pingback Big Government » Blog Archive » Illinois Grant to ACORN Housing Under Review - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 2:08 pm:

    […] There’s been debate over whether or not ACORN Housing received state money. The headline from a September 19 “Statehouse Insider” column in the State Journal-Register noted that “Illinois doesn’t have any contracts with ACORN.” Specifically, “the comptroller’s office handles state contracts and payments made under those contracts. It can’t find any payments made to ACORN going back two years.” The Capitol Fax Blog reported today that “the IHDA did give ACORN Housing, Inc. part of a $100,000 grant a few weeks ago, just before the latest scandal broke.” I called the comptroller’s office and was informed that payments must go through the comptroller’s accounting system before they show up in the online contract database; this may explain the delay. […]




34. - montrose - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 2:14 pm:

    *We should take a look at who takes donations from organizations that have been prosecuted for doing bad deeds. Xe aka Blackwater, anybody? That is the other thing people do when they are caught in dirt - they fingerpoint and claim others are doing it. Try using that excuse the next time you get pulled over for speeding, and see what the Officer tells you as they smirk at your feebleness.*

    It is completely relevant. It is not to exonerate ACORN for anything, but it is interesting that the GOP has huge problems with the misdeeds of a government contractor when it comes to ACORN, have been silent with the Blackwaters out there. It just shows that this is not about fraud for them, it is about taking advantage of a political moment.




35. - Shore - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 3:05 pm:

    at the end of the day this stuff matters little to voters when the NYT notes that there are 6 people for every job that comes open and 2 years of 11 percent unemployment. I realize that government beuracrats may not get this, but it matters to people out there.

    The final point on Kirk is that I’ve said here for a long time that there are 2 lines of attack on Kirk-that he’s a bush republican, and that he’s a flip flopper. I worry with hits like these that he’s enabling democrats to build a solid case around the latter.




36. - wordslinger - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 3:15 pm:

    “Tattaglia’s a pimp. He could have never outfought Santino. But it wasn’t til this day that I knew it was ACORN all along.”

    Again, I need some help on this ACORN thing. Something like $3 million a year from the Feds, GOP and Dem administrations.

    And we’re outraged…. why?

    I know we live in a Microwave World. But for The Outraged with short-term memory loss, I will direct your attention to the corner of Lehman and Brothers just about a year ago, where we first learned that the global ecohomy was bleeding from the neck.

    It is and was seriouse business. Lending the same buck 50 times over based on AAA ratings for sub-prime loans was, to say the least, irrationally optimistic.

    It’s going to take a while to bounce back from that. But as Sen. McCain said in the election, and he’s right, the fundamentals of the U.S. economy are strong.

    We just allowed (SEC, Fed) the finance system to screw it all up for everybody.




37. - Okay Then... - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 5:39 pm:

    How was is this previously deleted comment offensive and to whom:

    I agree with Kirk and Roskam about ACORN not being involved in 2010 Census taking, in light of the ACORN’S recent scandal.

    The Kirk and Roskam press conference today touched on ACORN’s involvement with the Census, amongst other things.




38. - Brennan - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 6:12 pm:

    I told you the GOP took the bait from Hoffman.

    All there really is here is connections that may not look so good. They really don’t show anything very deep at all.

    The question to me is the same though. Why would the AKPD employing Hoffman for Senate campaign fire the ACORN/SEIU first shot at Alexi?

    T-minus two days to FEC deadline. Who has money?




39. - Brennan - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 6:16 pm:

    About the Census, didn’t they already drop ACORN as a national partner?

    Or was that just a limited to one of the hundreds of outfits ACORN operates some of which may still be partners in certain areas?




40. - just sayin' - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 6:25 pm:

    The IL GOP never ceases to amaze with its hypocricy and incompentence.




41. - Quizzical - Monday, Sep 28, 09 @ 10:00 pm:

    Didn’t the Catholic church have some sex and embezzlement scandals? Are we going to defund all Catholic organizations?

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