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Question of the day
Thursday, Nov 12, 2009 - Posted by Rich Miller * Back in 1996 when Dick Durbin, Pat Quinn and Clint Krislov were all running for the US Senate, Durbin challenged Krislov’s nominating petitions. Krislov eventually dropped out of the race. Durbin stomped Quinn in the primary and went on to win the seat of retiring US Sen. Paul Simon. At the time that Durbin challenged Krislov’s petitions, Pat Quinn was quoted in the Sun-Times saying this…
Look, I don’t see anything inherently wrong with challenging petitions. The law is the law, and too many candidates don’t bother following it. But this latest flip-flop shows that Gov. Pat Quinn has either “matured” as a politician or has sold his soul. Actually, that might make a good question. * The Question: Has Gov. Quinn matured as a politician or has he sold his soul to get himself elected? Explain. …Adding… I should’ve been more clear that this is a snarky question. Snarky responses are heavily encouraged.
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- Skeptical Cynic - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:31 am:
Quinn sold his soul when he said Blago was an honest man.
- Don't Worry, Be Happy - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:32 am:
He’s flip-flopping between maturity and sell out.
- 47th Ward - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:34 am:
I’m not sure I understand the question. I always felt you couldn’t become a mature politician until you sold your soul…
- Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:34 am:
What is the first thing a newly minted officeholder is concered with? A second term. Quinn has not sold his soul, Quinn is finding out that his goal may be to indeed fix the state, but only a “second” term will allow that to happen, so let the chips fall where they may. Selling his soul is a bit dramatic. Maturing may be the only choice of the two.
- Wumpus - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:38 am:
I agree with Skeptical Cynic. When he ran with Blago..for the second term, he sold his soul. It would be malpractice for a campaign manager, etc not to at least look into challenging petitions.
- Stuck in the Law Library - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:42 am:
Quinn hasn’t sold his soul. Let’s get real here. The big problem is with his royal highness Mike Madigan and his cronies in the legislature that suck up to him and refuse to make any tough choices. Once Quinn wins this thing, it is going to be fun to sit back and watch this brawl with Madigan go down.
If you look at these videos of Quinn on his campaign site (which Rich pointed out that no one is watching) you will see as Quinn travels around, people genuinely identify with Quinn and like him. They know him, identify with his values and rather they agree with his choices or not, people aren’t going around saying Pat Quinn is the devil and selling his soul.
- Joe in the Know - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:43 am:
I think he has matured. Look at it this way: if you have a stone in your shoe, you remove it. Especially when you’re running. That can be very painful.
- ZC - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:44 am:
I’ll know whether Quinn has sold his soul after the primary elections.
Right now my best-case scenario is that the IL Dems are still planning on an income tax increase, but they’re waiting until after the primaries to pass it. If they don’t - and Quinn doesn’t raise a stink about it - then yes, Quinn officially qualifies as soul-sold.
- ivoted4judy - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:44 am:
Matured into a politician who has sold his soul
- GOP - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:45 am:
Perspectives change…It is easier to be the one throwing the (political) bombs than the one catching them. He is adapting to the role as catcher and it’s a bit awkward to watch. He’s maturing like an angst filled teen.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:45 am:
===but they’re waiting until after the primaries to pass it===
I’m betting they won’t do anything until after the November elections.
- babs - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:49 am:
The Devil went down to Springfield. Although many say he’s been living there for a long time now.
- Pelon - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:51 am:
I think it is a poor question since it presumes he had a political soul to begin with. Maybe I haven’t been around long enough, but I don’t see any evidence that makes me think he is anything but a typical opportunist politician.
- Robert - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:53 am:
You have to sell your soul to be a successful politician. Those who don’t are sitting on their couches at home as private citizens.
- Will County Woman - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:54 am:
darn, i can’t answer the question because i don’t do snark well.
- Just My Opinion - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:54 am:
Rule #1 for politicians: You must agree that should you win the office you are running for, you will report to the inauguration office and turn in your soul. It may be retrieved when you resign from office.
- Captain Flume - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:56 am:
Governor Quinn is a politician. He does whatever he can to get elected and is no different than any other elected official in that regard. Any statement uttered by a candidate, successfully elected or not, has to be taken with several grains of salt.
- Burrito Bandit - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:58 am:
Any campaign hack that doesn’t challenge petitions they think aren’t suspect isn’t doing their job. Will Burns did it to help Barack get in the state senate seat. I don’t care if you are running for county sewer board, challenge them all. It is how the game is played.
- Obamarama - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 10:59 am:
===It may be retrieved when you resign from office.===
Then you must relinquish it again when you file your first lobbyist registration with SoS (along with the new $1,000 fee–ouch).
PQ has matured as a politician but only slightly; he’s still not very good at it. I agree with the comment above, it would be malpractice on the part of a professional political operative not to challenge the petitions.
- lake county democrat - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:01 am:
Pat Quinn HAS sold his soul - this is a SMALL example. Not supporting special election for open senate seat when he thought he might get to make pick, throwing reform commission under the bus, etc. are bigger examples. Quinn had the once-in-a-lifetime chance to be a “Buck Stops Here” politician, shining a light on the legislative “leadership” and demanding real political and budget reform or nothing at all. That would have been true to the old Pat Quinn — the somewhat quioxotic but decent bloke we knew and loved. I’m pretty cynical but even I thought he was above it. Cue “Won’t Get Food Again”…
- Plutocrat03 - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:05 am:
Lost his soul, but seems to try to get it back from time to time.
He still does not have the finesse to do what da Mare does. The middle ground is so difficult to be in
- Leave a Light on George - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:06 am:
Hasn’t sold it just mortgaged it along with the rest of the state.
- ZC - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:16 am:
Rich you’re probably right. But, as I understand it, the fear of the House passing anything in the first year is that they will open themselves to a primary challenger. That was the rationale I read again and again why they took no action in 2009. And maybe it was just me, but I saw in the media some nods and winks that maybe - just maybe - we’ll act responsibly, once the petitions are in.
But aha, now it turns out that if they pass anything in an election year, then they run a risk of losing in the general! Is it just me, or is anyone else out there feeling conned? And just maybe (to try and get this back on the original thread) is Pat Quinn feeling a bit conned? I -hope- he is, at least a bit. If he’s not, then he really is fast becoming a part of the status quo.
- publius - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:17 am:
i would like to run for governor, so i think i will file a petition with one hundred signatures—should some dirty politician challenge my petition and destroy my dream fantasy? damn straight—they do us a favor by eliminating those who can’t even follow the simplist first rule of politics which says that to get on the ballot you must file the correct number of valid signatures—besides any thing that thins the herd is good
- Anon - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:18 am:
I think that the petition process gives machine politicians a huge advance. Having said that I also think that since the law requires petitions be filed we should know the quality and completeness of these documents. If someone can barely pull it together, havs a low quality document, or gets a pass for political reasons — voters should know because in the end the final petition is probably insight into how a person would do his/her job governing.
- Rich Miller - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:20 am:
===That was the rationale I read again and again why they took no action in 2009===
Don’t believe everything you read.
- Richard Afflis - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:22 am:
HOW can anyone dare to say he or any other politician have sold their soul???????
I suppose someone is going to come along and say that professional wrestling is fixed or something.
On a serious note, this Governor has more than demonstrated with conviction his sincere commitment to veterans issues. On that and how he conducts himself, he is more than a breath of fresh air to his predecessor.
- Will County Woman - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:27 am:
lake county democrat, thank you! well said & true!!!!
- Dan S, a voter and Cubs Fan - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:29 am:
Pat “Flipper” Quinn is a politician, he will do what ever he thinks he needs to do to keep his job.
- Quinn T. Sential - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:32 am:
[Pat Quinn has either “matured” as a politician or has sold his soul.]
The either/or nature of the questions assumes that each potential outcome is mutually exclusive of the other and both conditions could not be present or occur at the same time.
While it is true that a politician that is immature can still sell his or her soul, and a politician who has sold his or her soul may or may not ever mature, there is nothing to prohbit the simultaneous metamorphosis of these two co-morbid; and perhaps co-dependent conditions from developing at the same time.
One can only hypothesize, without the benefit of the patient sitting for a thorough examination, however all outward indications suggest that at least one; if not both conditions have manifested themselves.
Much like people are examining their past choices and developing a certain sense of buyers remorse at the federal government level, the same is beginning to surface at the state level as well.
Those of you in Cook County and the City of Chicago have likely already been infected with the buyer’s remorse syndrome. At least at the county level there may be a near term cure on the horizon. At the city level however, the condition may be terminal, and its only a question of whether you will outlive the Mayor, or whether the Mayor will outlive you.
Short of a federal criminal indictment and conviction however I am afraid you are looking at a non-fatal, but lifetime condition for which the only possible treatment and cure may be voluntary re-location.
Remember what’s been said previously however about the grass being greener on the other side of the street, before you go packing your bags.
- Just wondering - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:37 am:
I agree with publius…what does it say about a candidate, lower on the ticket who doesn’t submit any petitons on their own behalf? It says they paid slugs to falsify documents to earn a couple bucks. It’s almost comical to really look at some of these petitons. If this basic rule is not followed and shady candidates like this are elected, we will have bigger problems than we already have. Petition challenges are valid……BUT Quinn has flip flopped once again. He’s older but not matured as a politician.
- Angry Chicagoan - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:39 am:
Quinn hasn’t sold his soul. The previous tenant’s lease on his soul was terminated and now he’s leased it to new tenants.
- George - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:40 am:
Rich, look.
Quinn’s statement from 1996 was clearly a question of the candidates trying to live up to the ideal of the previous office holder/predecessor - to follow in the footsteps of Paul Simon.
Fast forward to now - and the previous office holder/predecessor for the Governor position was, obviously, not Paul Simon. Quinn is being 100% consistent.
Its all about context and expectations. To live up to the previous office holder’s ideal, Quinn and Hynes will be fighting over who will best challenge petitions, shake down state contractors, set up extra-governmental criminal enterprises that seek to make money off the state, and grow lots of hair.
- jeff - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:46 am:
I wish I had met Senator Simon so I could say this.
Governor I knew Paul Simon and you are no Paul Simon.
However it was good enough for Barack Obama as State Senator so go for it.
- CircularFiringSquad - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:47 am:
Hmmm
Let’s see there are rules so you follow the rules period. Anyone who opts not to follow the rules really ought to get to another game….say oatmeal mixing.
- TaxMeMore - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:58 am:
Claiming Jim Smith is not the same person as James Smith for the sole purpose of getting their “unchallenged” signature number below the legal threshhold so the challenge moves forward is dishonest and wrong.
Rich, good luck finding a petition challenge where the challenger honestly challenges the signatures based on real evidence instead of making up false, fraudulent accusations exactly like that above. That is when they’ve jumped the hoops and have the sigs instead of only a few.
A challenge CAN be done honestly, but they rarely are in Illinois because the challengers are dishonest frauds making up reasons to deny citizens the right to sign a petition.
Challengers should face the same potential criminal charges for making false accusations as everyone else. When their challenges fail, they should have to pay for them and then some. A $10,000 deposit before challenging someone is a great idea to help keep challengers from making false accusations.
Of course Quinn has sold out. He’s a Democrat.
- Anon - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:08 pm:
==Has Gov. Quinn matured as a politician or has he sold his soul to get himself elected? ==
po-TAY-to, po-TAH-to
Or, to steal from an old lawyer joke, when the devil told him that the price of the deal was his immortal soul, he replied, “So, what’s the catch?”
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:15 pm:
Politics ain’t bean bag…
Petition challenges are probably the most benign action we will see over the next few months.
PQ is showing that he wants to keep the job he probably never could have won. I don’t think Quinn has sold his soul, but he seems very uncomfortable with the tough realities of being the top dog.
- VanillaMan - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:20 pm:
I FOUGHT THE DEVIL - The Bobby Fuller Four, enhanced by VanillaMan
Breakin’ promises is… no fun
I Fought the Devil and the … Devil won
I Fought the Devil and the … Devil won
I needed funds, ’cause I … had none
I sold my soul, the … Devil won
I sold it to Blago then, we won
If I had a heart, I’d feel so bad
But I had this race to run
I told the best stands… I’ve ever had
I Fought the Machine and the … Machine won
I Fought the Combine and the … Combine won
Challenging opponents costs a ton
I Fought the Party and the … Party won
I Fought the Devil and the … Devil won
I ran as a reformer and …I won
I Fought the City and the … City won
I Fought the Devil and the … Devil won
I lied to get here and I feel so bad
But I wanted my day in the sun
I’ve flipped flopped more than I’ve ever had
I Fought the Liars and the … Liars won
I Fought the Devil and the … Devil won
- KappaKid - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:20 pm:
Walls says the petition challenge is racially motivated: http://www.chicagocurrent.com/articles/30737-Walls-says-petition-challenge-is-racially-motivated
- I'm just saying - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:25 pm:
Tax me More, that is one of the dumbest things I have heard in a long time. I have done many petition challenges and honestly many times you are protecting the integrity of the ballot. I have seen many slipshod patterns of fraud that i have stopped from getting on the ballot, as Anon said before, if you can not mount a good petition effort, i’m not sure you should be in office, as it is obvious you lack the organizational skills to fulfil a fairly menial task…….
- I'm just saying - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:25 pm:
There is a reason why Dock Walls has been elected to nothing, he is a gadfly…….
- Montrose - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:27 pm:
I applaud Quinn’s innovative tactics for trying to close the budget gap, but selling his soul is just another one-time revenue source.
Now, if used his soul as collateral for issuing bonds that would go towards the creation of green jobs that manufacture enviromentally-friendly temporary souls for use at religious ceremonies and emergency blues-singing sessions, I would be all for it.
- Fed Up - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:38 pm:
As we have been seeing with Quinn, his position on anything is subject to change at any moment. If there is a legitimate reason for the challenge I have no problem with it. My concern is that a lot of politicans are leveling charges just to see if something sticks, possibly eliminating an opponent and maybe reducing the chances of an election defeat.
- Will County Woman - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:46 pm:
Re: what kappa wrote and the link in his/her post…
how plausible is it for a front-runner candidate in a major race to not have knowledge of his campaign or a campaign operative mounting a petition challenge? How likely is that a candidate like quinn would not have informed about the challenge? Quinn and his camp spokespeople initially responded that they did not know anything about it and quinn stated that he didn’t have all the details about the challenge. a day later Quinn and his spokespeople stated that one of his supports may have initiated a petition challenge.
if quinn knew about the challenge or encouraged it or agreed to it, why not just admit when asked? Hynes admitted upfront to being behind the challenge to Scanlan’s petitions.
- Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:52 pm:
Quinn sold his sold his soul to fill some of the budget gap. It didn’t bring in much revenue, but four leg. leaders were not able to bring in any because theirs were sold long ago…
- illinois - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:56 pm:
The Devil went down to Illinois lookin for a
Soul to steal. It didn’t take long. The race was on
For the Governor of Illinois. They were standing in line
Lookin to make a deal.
- Bill - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 12:57 pm:
He sold his soul years ago but nobody paid any attention because he was irrelevant and was considered mostly a joke and a stunt man, master of the Sunday evening press conference.
Now that he actually is in an important office by accident he will do everything he can to keep it regardless of how many of his former friends he has to step on.
Watch for a lot more veterans benefits, senior citizen breaks, and pandering to minorities here in the Land of Lincoln.
He’s fiddling while Illinois burns. If you watch closely you’ll see that he is very Rod-like. He’s just not as good at it.
- Joe from Joliet - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:00 pm:
I would not say Qinn has matured as a politician. I would say he has devolved into a Chicago Democrat machine politician. Soul-selling is required.
- Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:01 pm:
Quinn is starting up a new band - “Smoky and the Flip Floppin Mirrors”.
- Slim Shady - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:09 pm:
Selling his soul would imply PQ made a deal with the devil. I don’t think the devil will take that deal. Will the real PQ please stand up!
- Little Egypt - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:15 pm:
Well hello Bill. In case you haven’t noticed, for the past few decades, ALL politicians pander to ALL minority/special interest groups. Some are better at it than others.
- Third Generation Chicago Native - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:17 pm:
Quinn has tasted power, and he likes it. He wants to get a few more bites in before he retires.
- Obamarama - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:27 pm:
===How likely is that a candidate like quinn would not have informed about the challenge?===
How likely given his current camp? Not sure. Though if it was me I would probably take the line “just keep going around shaking hands and kissing babies and let the professionals do their job relative to campaign logistics and strategy; it’s not your bag, Pat.”
- wordslinger - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:33 pm:
It’s hard to tell. However, I was down at the Crossroads last night and Pat was slinging a mean guitar.
- Ron Burgundy - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:36 pm:
From my perspective, Gov. Quinn has always been like this. He has always been about looking out for Number One, it’s just been that his modus operandi has been to style himself as a populist, reformer outsider. Admittedly, he has done a good job of that to this point in his career, but the primary motive of self-preservation has always been there, as evidenced by his being one of the most perennial perennial candidates of the last quarter century in Illinois.
Nothing wrong with challenging petitions in and of itself, but there is when you set yourself up as being “better” than that and disparage those that do.
- the Other Anonymous - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:45 pm:
C’mon, it’s Pat Quinn we’re talking about. He’d do something more populist than selling his soul, like trading down to a used ‘78 soul with 250,000 miles on it!
- EIRE 17 - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 1:54 pm:
the requirements to get on the ballot in illinois are not very difficult. they are reasonable and not hard to satisfy. therfore, if a candidate will not even take the time and put in the effort to meet such a fundamental threshold then too bad if they get tossed off the ballot.
- DuPage Dave - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 2:00 pm:
Pat Quinn had his chance, as others noted above, to use Blago’s demise to demand major reforms in how business is done. He would not have succeeded in getting everything, but as it is he has done more or less nothing in his 10 months as governor.
Quinn’s quote referencing Paul Simon is apt. Quinn used to set himself up as a protege of Simon’s, but his refusal to acknowledge trying to dump another candidate off the ballot is pure political baloney.
I’m proud to say that I met Paul Simon and got to talk to him a bit one day long ago. I’ve met Pat Quinn and I’m no longer proud of that.
- Levois - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 2:29 pm:
Sold his soul? Yeah probably I’m not sure what good it’ll do. He just needs to demonstrate that he can make the tough decisions. While the transit issue may not have been the most ideal, at least he finally made the decision. We just don’t need anyone to kick the can down the road.
- zatoichi - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 2:39 pm:
It is easy to say Quinn sold himself out, but how many people in other professions find out that the view on the outside is very different from the view on the inside. Ever move from being an hourly worker (where you just knew what was the right thing to do) into a management position and suddenly get hit with DOL, HR, personnel issues, production, organizational performance goals, and a huge log of regulations you never had to worry about before? It is a often a mental jump where many people never understand what hit them and they struggle. Trying to herd cats is not for everyone. Quinn only has 100 different groups who are sure their way is the only correct way. Many of those groups would gleefully love to see him fail (incompetence or bad circumstances make no difference) while others want him to succeed for their own benefit. Tough spot to be in.
Pingback Top of the primary ballot in Illinois may not look too familiar | Political Fix | STLtoday - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 3:00 pm:
[…] First? William “Dock” Walls of Chicago, whose only real claim to fame thus far is the baffling fact that Quinn’s people have filed a challenge to the legitimacy of his election petition — an odd action to take against a political unknown, and a potentially risky one for Quinn’s standing the black community, with Walls being the only African-American in on the ballot. (More on that from RICH MILLER.) […]
- Chi Gal - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 3:40 pm:
How dare Walls run for guv? Doesn’t he realize the pandering Quinn has been doing for months to become a part of this desirable demographic voting block? Short of using the opposite cream that Sosa is using on his skin, there really is nothing more Quinn could do to enhance his pandering. This just isn’t fair. Walls was born an African American. Quinn has had to work at it.
- quinn fan - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 4:02 pm:
if carolyn hodge were still working, none of this would have happened. it is unfortunate that our honest governor has indirectly supported the petition challenges to mr walls campaign.
carolyn, come back soon!
- Fed Up - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 4:14 pm:
“Selling his soul would imply PQ made a deal with the devil”
Even if he did, he would change his mind and deny a deal was ever made
- PG - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 4:26 pm:
Politics ain’t bean bags. Quinn hasn’t had to play like that before. Now that he’s at the top of the ticket, he has to play hard ball. It has nothing to do with one’s soul. It has everything to do with standing up for yourself and for the people who are counting on you. There’s nothing wrong with that.
- Pooh Bear - Thursday, Nov 12, 09 @ 11:25 pm:
Bottom line here is that Pat Quinn has been able to identify himself with the democratic voter bloc. They see the integrity and true person Quinn portrays (and I believe is). Devil? I’m catholic, as is the Governor. Devil is a word left for non-believers . . . I know I believe in Quinn.
- WRMN Politics - Friday, Nov 13, 09 @ 5:57 am:
For decades Quinn has wanted to be Governor in the worst way. He has finally succeeded.
- Inside Information - Friday, Nov 13, 09 @ 12:41 pm:
I happen to know that William Dock Walls has more than enough valid signatures. Pat Quinn will end up with egg on his face. unfortunately the taxpayers will be the ones footing the huge petition challenge bill.