1. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:02 pm:

   The last numbers I saw were that Illinois is losing about $1.1 billion a year from the sales tax loophole for online sales and mail order.

   Moreover, Google recently opened offices here in Illinois, and while they’re eating the newspaper industry’s lunch, Google ad sales in Illinois are not taxed.

   The failure to tax internet sales is putting main street businesses that provide good-paying jobs out-of-business.




2. - Will County Woman - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:12 pm:

   GregHinz: Horse tracks offer to “rescue” failing video poker plan. http://tinyurl.com/ycobbo9

   The video poker idea was a bust from the start and should have been left alone.




3. - shore - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:18 pm:

   I’ve said before that I think management of the 140 character social media is the next great revelation in political communication. Knowing when to rebut charges on blogs or tweets, knowing when to not give stories traction. A lot of the stuff that brought republicans down in 2006 started on blogs run by people in their basements willing to do research and publish stuff that newspapers wouldn’t for fear of lawsuits and other things. Knowing who actually reads tweets and whether it’s better to do that than facebook, than a press release than a leak, than something else is making it a much more interesting p.r. war game.

   I disagree with Mr.Fritchey. At the lower levels of politics perhaps its ok for people to stream of consciousness tweet, but if you are at a higher level, I think it needs to be more tactical as part of the overall campaign/office messaging and political plan. The last thing you want is a politician at the end of the day, pissed off, seeing something and then tweeting something that could be hit in an ad. My friend Mr. Kirk saw this last summer from tweeting in the pentagon.




4. - Just the Facts - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:26 pm:

   YDD - 1.1 billion is a bit high. Earlier this year the Department of Revenue estimatedthe loss at 153 million: http://www.revenue.state.il.us/AboutIdor/PressReleases/PR-02-16-2009.pdf




5. - Reality Check - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:29 pm:

   Greg B: I’ve asked in the comments section for a definition of an ultra-conservative is. Let’s see if I get answer.

   If Greg’s issuing challenges now, I’d renew my invitation of a few weeks back to detail how, specifically, since he seems so rabidly against raising taxes, he would prefer to cut $13 billion from the budget next year.

   Like the man said, let’s see if I get an answer. Other than crickets.




6. - Lefty Lefty - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:32 pm:

   Mr. Blankenship commits a number of argumentation errors including the error of innumeracy. Just because 48% of the country agree on a position does not make them agree on everything.

   Added, why so sensitive about being called an ultra-conservative? Do conservatives have a problem with that?




7. - KeepSmiling - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:35 pm:

   Peraica’s Twitter says the veto override was successful.




8. - Judgment Day Is On The Way - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:38 pm:

   Originally posted by YDD:
   “The last numbers I saw were that Illinois is losing about $1.1 billion a year from the sales tax loophole for online sales and mail order.”

   YDD, that’s only part of the story. This part is more anecdotal, because it probably could contradict some of the “loss”.

   Happened to attend a small gathering of antique dealers from a number of IL river towns within the last few weeks. Virtually all of the businesses (all “Main Street” businesses, btw) have websites, and now many of them have on-line stores. And the few who don’t are going there quickly. These folks are making more money through their on-line stores than from walk-in traffic. And a substantial portion of their business comes from out of state.

   Now, are most of them collecting taxes on those out of state purchases. Probably not. OTOH, those on-line sales are certainly enabling some of those Main Street businesses to stay in business. And we’re just talking one tiny, tiny part of the overall marketplace.

   Taxing Internet sales isn’t as easy as all the folks think, and there’s going to be lots & lots of unintended consequences (probably not all good), especially for Main Street.

   Just saying…




9. - Indy - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:39 pm:

   john fritchey is exactly right. it’s pretty obvious to most social media users which accounts are run by staffers using recycled, tired campaign buzz words. and those are the accounts that are promptly ignored.




10. - Montrose - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:46 pm:

    All I know is that Fritchey’s presence on Facebook/Twitter has revealed to me his love of old school rap. Consequently, regardless of how much I disagree with him on a position, I will always like the guy.




11. - Anonymous - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 1:54 pm:

    The right wing has systematically tried (often successfully) to redefine the political landscape over the past few decades so that what was formerly “liberal” is now “socialist”, what was “moderate” is now “left wing”, what was “conservative” is now “moderate” and what was “ultraconservative” is now “conservative.” Any European looking at our political landscape thinks we’re nuts in our use of these terms. For example, the Tory Party of Margaret Thatcher would have had no problem with the Clinton health plan, yet the current Republican lexicon is to call the more modest Obama plan “socialist.”




12. - Yellow Dog Democrat - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 2:15 pm:

    Just the facts:

    No offense to my friends at the Illinois Dept. of Revenue, but their study is full of holes:

    1. They estimate the sales tax rate in Illinois at 5%. True, that’s the portion collected by the state. But substantial sums go to local public coffers, lost revenue that is offset either by cuts in services or increases in other taxes or both.

    2. Their study assumes that the online spending by Illinois consumers is proportional to their gross consumer spending nationally. Poppycock. If you don’t think that more affluent suburban folks and folks with relatively high local sales tax rates — for example, cook county residents — spend a greater proportion online, you’re deluded.

    3. Their study only looks at online shopping, but ignores the much larger and more lucrative mail-order business.

    Judgment Day:

    No offense meant to your antique dealers, but I’m guessing their sales are a fraction of what Amazon, iTunes, eBay and others avoid in paying taxes.




13. - Just the Facts - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 3:21 pm:

    YDD - I don’t think I’m deluded (of course if I am I, by definition I wouldn’t know it), but I think your number is a bit high, even adding in untaxed mail order sales.

    To get to a tax loss of 1.1 billion from online and mail order sales would take, according to my back of the envelope calculations about 17.6 billion in untaxed sales (6.25% state sales tax rate - 5% to the state and 1.25% to the locals)

    No locally imposed sales taxes apply to sales by out of state sellers. So that’s over $1400 per person in untaxed internet and mail order sales per Illinois - assuming an Illinois population of 12,419,000 (that’s what I got when I googled IL population).

    Even if you assumed in coming up with the 1.1 billion number that all untaxed purchases would have otherwise been made from main street retailers and, therefore, locally imposed sales taxes would have applied to the transactions and assume an average state-wide sales tax rate of 8% to capture the locally-imposed taxes, that would still require 13,750,000,000 in untaxed sales - over $1100 per Illinois resident in untaxed purchases per year.

    That still sounds a bit high to me.

    As to your comment to Judgment Day - There is no sales tax imposed on iTunes music downloads because Illinois only taxes sales of tangible property, with the exception of downloads of computer software. (same result I suspect for downloads of ebooks from Amazon.)

    If these internet and mail order sales are ever to be taxed, Congress needs to adopt legislation that grants states the authority to require the out of state internet and catalog sellers without a physical location in the state to collect the tax. Otherwise, the commerce clause keeps the states from requiring tax to be collected by the sellers.




14. - Greg B. - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 3:29 pm:

    Lefty, lefty: I’m just asking for a definition is all. I would like to measure it against various positions using public policy polling. What’s wrong with that?

    And I don’t make any errors, I ask if being for/or against gitmo is a criteria to be an ultra-conservative and point out that it’s 50-50 issue.

    And Rich, I’m not taking you to task, yet? I just want a definition as I offered on ditz’s.




15. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 3:32 pm:

    Greg, you can’t choose one issue that Byrne doesn’t even agree with and then claim that could be a definition of ultra-conservative. That’s patently illogical.




16. - Greg B. - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 3:44 pm:

    Rich, I use it as an example because that was what his piece was about. I’m leaving it to you come up with the issues that define ultra-conservative.

    I’m just an innocent baby duck with an inquiring mind asking a simple question… What could possibly be wrong with that? :)




17. - CircularFiringSquad - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 4:03 pm:

    Wow this is fascinating stuff….just call Byrne a wing nut…he knew a lot about transporation, but is generally clueless on other stuff. In meantime WhackyJack McCain is getting bashed nationally for his flip flop on medicare cuts.
    Looks like another bad day for Commando Kirk. His big hero gets knock all over the block.
    Perhaps the Commando can next turn to the lightly guard ComEd nuclear garbabe dump at Zion to showcase his problem solving skills.




18. - reformer - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 4:56 pm:

    Lefty, Lefty: When was the last time the term ultra-liberal was applied to anyone? If ulta-conservatives exist, then certainly ultra-libs do too.




19. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 4:59 pm:

    ===When was the last time the term ultra-liberal was applied to anyone? ===

    Click here




20. - Rich Miller - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 5:03 pm:

    Also, a quick Google search showed Byrne referencing “ultra liberals” here.




21. - Greg B. - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 6:00 pm:

    :-) Touche

    That’s great. We should get Dennis to offer a definition of ultraliberal, as well. That’s fair. Now, what’s your definition of ultra-conservative?

    Ultra means extreme, no? What’s extreme? When 10% supports/opposes? 20%, 30%? What’s the number? And what are the issues in which Dennis falls outside the number you choose? Maybe it’s Dennis’ tactics? Has he broken the law in pursuit of his issues? He calls ACORN ultraliberal and some of their actions have been legally questionable to the point where their offices were raided by prosecutors. Is that the measure?

    And I put your acumen, credibility and stature far above those of some mere LTE author lobbing an ad hominem.




22. - Dan - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 6:34 pm:

    Specifically on Thompson, just about every rational thinking person is jumping against Kirk (and his new found conservatism) and the like who are using the prison solely as a political issue and failing to even support their position with evidence. The SunTimes and Tribune have both called out the Kirk/Byrne crying that all of sudden, there will be terrorists living next door to you. Both newspapers have called out unfounded fear mongering (Cheney is looking for a comeback) that unfortunately still drives uniformed voters. There was an article in the Trib (you know that commie rag, right?) last week about how a 1000 terrorist suspects are being imprisoned a few hundred miles from Denver for the past few years, how the residents haven’t noticed their daily lives changing, how it’s a complete nonissue for them, how their safety hasn’t been affected.
    Of course, Rich, conservatives like to win period. If they have to lie and cheat and scream that Illinois will be “Ground Zero” for jihad against Americans, they’ll do it. The ends justify the means. Of course, people like Kirk/Byrne/Greg haven’t noticed that we’ve held both domestic (McVeigh) and foreign terrorists in this country for decades without incident.




23. - Anon - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 6:41 pm:

    What is the justification for a sales tax on internet-based businesses that have no location within Illinois? What sort of public services (fire, police, etc) are tied to, say, an operation in Oregon or Florida? Put simply, what business do the grubby fingers of Illinois/Cook Co/Chicago have in taxing a transaction for a business from another state?

    Just because a transaction occurs and it is an untapped source of revenue is not a justification for taxation.




24. - 47th Ward - Tuesday, Dec 1, 09 @ 9:20 pm:

    Geez Rich, you had to dig in the archives all the way back to September 2009 for that old quote. C’mon.

    Oh, and I meant to say this earlier in re Lefty Lefty’s question:

    ===Do conservatives have a problem with that?===

    Problem? I thought it was a contest, with Kirk going for the gold medal in the “best new album” category.

    Dennis Byrne kills me. “Get off my lawn!”




25. - wordslinger - Wednesday, Dec 2, 09 @ 7:56 am:

    When it comes to definitions, there’s a handy reference called a dictionary. I’d encourage everyone to use it.

    The word “conservative,” in our current political dialogue, has been perverted beyond recognition. It’s true definition calls for sobriety and restraint. Not a lot of that happening on Rush and Hannity.

    In politics, it’s been hijacked by cable and talk radio Elmer Gantrys making a buck by telling the nebbies of the world that they’re victims of ACORN and Obama.

    These are the same folks who claimed McCain wasn’t a “real” conservative.

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