1. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:15 am:

   Summer is almost here, and given this vote it is clear that Illinois will never pass a helmet law for motorcyclists. Their lobbying is so effective, the city of Chicago couldn’t pass an ordinance to requires kids to wear bicycle helmets. Fine. Good for them. I applaud their tenacity.

   But let’s introduce legislation requiring those licensed to operate motorcycles to become organ donors. I saw a chart of organ donations in Illinois, and the numbers spike in the summer months. And I drive on Chicago’s expressways and watch as packs of young riders play their game of weaving in and out of traffic, riding on the shoulder or center lanes, etc.

   Sure the majority of riders obey the laws, but those that don’t — and don’t wear helmets — ought to at least allow their organs to be donated when they lie brain dead because they didn’t want to wear a helmet.

   Society should get some benefit from this reckless behavior. Illinois already receives less federal highway money because we won’t pass a helmet law, IIRC, it’s about $12 million per year we leave on the table.




2. - Principled Commentator - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:16 am:

   So, Sen. Forby, that means if you adopt this principle broadly, it means you oppose forcing parents to get their kids immunized and oppose forcing parents to have their children treated for life threatening diseases? Would you accept a bill that denies insurance coverage to you and others who don’t have helmets on their kids? Why should I have to pay more for insurance because you are irresponsible?

   All these questions follow from the basic principle you espouse.




3. - been there - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:17 am:

   probably these are the same people, or their successors, who were against safety seats in vehicles for babies and other children. some of them also think it’s fine to have guns in preschools.




4. - train111 - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:17 am:

   I say fine. You don’t have to wear your helmet– but in doing so you automatically waive any right to any taxpayer financed medical care for any injuries you may receive.

   train111




5. - Ghost - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:18 am:

   What if we keep the good prison we ened for our inmates, and let them buy the Thompson center donwtown chicago. They would even have rail access, so they could get a hole prison train running for our new high speed rail….




6. - Stallion - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:23 am:

   Way to go Forby.. Im with you…Thank you




7. - Retired - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:28 am:

   The firm selling price for the Thomson prison is $13 billion.




8. - Robert Zimmerman - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:29 am:

   thank you abate and todd!




9. - John Bambenek - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:29 am:

   Parents are the absolute last people we should have making decisions for their children. First it’ll be letting their kids ride motorcycles without helmets, then no immunizations, then they’ll be homeschooling them and dooming them to a lifetime of ignorance and lower-class lives.

   We should immediately end this whole parenthood institution as only the government has the wholesome intent, high-level of knowledge and benevolence to raise children. We need those hairless baboons out of our children’s lives and let our heroic school teachers, government social workers and agency heads have the tools they need to raise our children.

   Remember, it’s for the children.




10. - vole - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:29 am:

    Brains on the hard road instead of brains in the legislature. What a warped concept of freedom!




11. - The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:38 am:

    Um…that’s “snark”, right John?

    *Just kidding*




12. - John Bambenek - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:40 am:

    No… it’s just a display of my sunshiney disposition that brightens the day of all around me. ;)




13. - shore - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:45 am:

    motorcycles another, waste of our time bill. No wonder the state is so screwed up. Focus on getting the basic stuff you were sent there to do right, and stop with the stupid.




14. - Rich Miller - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:49 am:

    shore, you were around congress, so you’re not some average voter who doesn’t understand a legislative process. Therefore, you know fully well that the process often covers things that you might not consider important but that others do.




15. - YoYo - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:52 am:

    47th Ward - your organ harvesting plan is freaking me out.




16. - soccermom - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:52 am:

    Could we just pass a bill requiring them to be called donorcycles? That’s what the ER docs call them…




17. - Interested Observer - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:52 am:

    Missouri and Arkansas both have helmet laws - and they say Arkansawyers are backward. At least we know how to protect our children.




18. - Some Guy - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:55 am:

    If the nutbars against wearing helmets ride without them… isn’t this a problem that will eventually solve itself?




19. - TJ - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 11:58 am:

    Are you freaking kidding me?!?! Sorry, but this ticks me off. You don’t want the state to tell you how to raise your kids? Requiring parents to make their kids wear helmets on motorcycles makes even more sense than requiring kids to wear seatbelts!

    This isn’t a big-government, nanny state issue, this is a common sense, let’s prevent brain damage issue!

    I swear….. if I owned an insurance company, I’d include in our policies language that if someone gets into an accident and is not wearing a seatbelt while in a car or a helmet while on a motorcyle, we won’t cover their medical bills.

    Sorry if that sounds cold-hearted, but we’re taking about literally the absolute least that a driver or a rider could do to protect themselves, so if they aren’t willing to do something as simple as do that when every study shows how much protection they offer people in accidents, they don’t deserve someone else to pay for their medical bills.

    heh…. and that probably makes me sound like a raging conservative, instead of the bleeding heart liberal that I actually am, haha!




20. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 12:05 pm:

    Yo Yo, it freaks me out too.

    Head trauma is the number one cause of death among Illinois organ donors. So it stands to reason that if we require all motorcyclists to become organ donors…

    http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/latestData/rptData.asp




21. - Pat Robertson - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 12:06 pm:

    Why dont’ we keep Thomson, and move Aging into it? Then they can all be together, with no outside rental expense.

    And YoYo — if you think 47th Ward’s mild suggestion is, try reading some of Larry Niven’s short sci-fi stories that touch on the subject.




22. - TJ - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 12:09 pm:

    Oh, and Sen. Forby, if you’re so against the government telling you how to raise your kids, let’s so you push for a repeal of all state child protection laws, child labor laws, age of consent laws, child education laws, child health laws, and any number of child laws that you can think of. After all, if you think that the government shouldn’t have a say in protecting your kids from brain damage, how dare they try to protect them in any other fashion which may, or may not, prevent you as a parent from raising kids in any way you see fit?

    Sorry for making two posts on this and if I went overboard there, Rich, but I’m seriously annoyed. I apologize if I went over the line with my comment, as that honestly wasn’t my intention, but criminy….




23. - zatoichi - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 12:45 pm:

    “I don’t want anybody in this audience telling me how to raise my kids.” And I do not want anyone causing my health insurance to rise because they they got hurt from an avoidable injury that has a very expensive medical rehab process. You would think there is a reason Shawn White and every professional X Games pro wears a helmet. Then again motor cycles only go faster. Then again research has shown that asphalt will cushion any falls.




24. - been there - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 12:51 pm:

    donorcycles. perfect.

    and maybe forby wants to save money by eliminating the department of children and family services. just let the parents do it all on their own.




25. - U.S. Rep. George O'Brien, RIP - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 12:59 pm:

    6 present votes on the helmet bill, including State Sen. A.J. Wilhelmi (D-Joliet). Wow, must have been really tough to cast that one!




26. - dupage dan - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:00 pm:

    How is this different than requiring all children of the appropriate size be placed in car seats and/or seat belted? The child can not do an analysis of risk vs benefit. Also, there are societal concerns involved that can’t be ignored. Others have said it well - do what you want, just don’t come to me for medical care (I pay taxes and insurance) if your child is hurt. However, this may harm the child and we don’t want to penalize someone who has no choice in the matter. I know some about ABATE and Todd and know the position. I ride motorcylcles and wear a helmet. I would not be here if I didn’t as a result of a car vs bike accident. It’s the same as a seat belt. I wish there was some way the insurance companies could see who is wearing the safety equipment and who isn’t. Certainly, they could raise the rates if they find out people are not using the seatbelt, car seat, helmet. I don’t think it can be done to deny coverage after the fact. In my profession I see the results of people who get injured while uncovered. A tragedy that can be avoided. Why subject your child to that? Selfish.




27. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:02 pm:

    Gary Busey wasn’t wearing a helmet - and look, he seem fine, right?




28. - Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:24 pm:

    I would like to think that helmet laws make a difference. However, a visit to the CDC Injury Prevention & Control: Data & Statistics site shows Illinois to have one of the lowest rates in the country for TBI, Motorcyclist, unintentional, all ages

    http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/fatal.html

    Under Reports, Charts & Maps, select “Fatal Injury Maps 2000-2006″ Once there, in the first three menus, select “TBI only” “unintentional” and “motorcyclist”

    Sorry, but the stats do not indicate that states with helmet laws have lower TBI rates. (I did not expect this result, but there it is.)




29. - Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:26 pm:

    The above should say “Sorry, but the stats do not indicate that states with helmet laws have lower TBI fatality rates. (I did not expect this result, but there it is.)”




30. - dupage dan - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:34 pm:

    That info is not what I would expect. I note, however, that the info relates to fatalities only. We aren’t talking about death here - we are talking about injury and disability. It may be that both go hand in hand but it would be nice to know.




31. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:36 pm:

    That’s interesting data Pot,

    My initial thought was it had something to do with long winters in Illinois, but the map shows otherwise. The Mountain West states have higher rates, likely due to dangerous mountain roads more than anything.

    I did notice Iowa is higher than IL, and they also have no helmet law. I think there is one other state that doesn’t have a helmet law but can’t remember it or if there are in fact only three states.

    On the other hand, if you check for nonfatal accidents that required hospitalization, unintentional motorcycle accidents rank #5 for people aged 25-34 and 35-44.

    Thanks for pointing me to the CDC site. A gold mine of interesting data.




32. - Pat - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:43 pm:

    Dear Sen. Forby: Do you know the acronym TBI? Totally bonehead idiot; no I’m sorry that’s traumatic brain injury. The first definition is for legislators who state “I don’t want anybody in this audience telling me how to raise my kids.” I bet your willing to have the state pay for the rehabilitation of your brain dead child after their head is smashed like a rotten melon. BTW: How much money did ABATE pay you to say that?




33. - Pot calling kettle - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:49 pm:

    It has been postulated that riders wearing helmets take more risks because they feel safer in a helmet. I do not know if there is any good data to back this idea up.

    Full disclosure: No way would I ride a motorcycle w/out a helmet. I do ride my bike without one.




34. - John Bambenek - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:49 pm:

    I agree, Sen. Forby shouldn’t be (nor any other legislator) telling people who to raise their children. There is only one bloc who’s superior intellect, morals, and manner of dress is up to the task of raising Illinois children… anonymous Capital Fax commenters.




35. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 1:54 pm:

    Based on my observations regarding motor cycle riders in Illinois, I believe the reason we do not have the same rate of TBI from motorcycle accidents may be due to driver obesity, AARP membership and mode of fashion. It is probably a challenge to fit a gray ponytail into a helmet.




36. - Organ Donors - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 2:09 pm:

    It is unfathomable to me how anyone would actually *fight* to *oppose* something that makes so much sense from a safety standpoint. Go ahead, give me your ‘personal freedom’ arguments. Keep on making those arguments until your face gets splattered on the ground when a car (notice I’m hypothetically giving blame to the car - I’m not saying motorcyclists are bad drivers, merely pointing out the fact that you are hanging your body out there for anything to happen to it) runs into you and knocks you off your bike. I feel bad for family members and loved ones of people like this, who hide behind ‘personal freedom’ to avoid being big boys and big girls and practicing a simple safety measure. It’s just sad. I wish you all safe travels. I also wish you’d put on a helmet. For your family’s sake, if nothing else.




37. - wordslinger - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 2:15 pm:

    VMan never misses a chance to indulge a mindless stereotype. Stay classy, brother.




38. - The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 2:20 pm:

    ===
    There is only one bloc who’s superior intellect, morals, and manner of dress is up to the task of raising Illinois children….
    ===

    I’m glad you mentioned manner of dress specifically, John. I wasn’t going to say anything, but I did notice that as soon as Rich put this post up, some of us who were just “a bit under-dressed” today suddenly made a dash from their laptops to wherever…so they could change or accessorize properly before the discussion began.




39. - Small Town Liberal - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 2:34 pm:

    As a motorcycle rider over the age of 18, I am strongly against the state requiring me to wear a helmet, just as I don’t believe the state should require me to wear a seatbelt if I choose not to. However, I have no problem with an under 18 helmet law. We’ve decided that is the age a person becomes an adult, and if parents aren’t smart enough to protect them, someone else needs to.




40. - Slick Willy - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 2:43 pm:

    I am in the same boat as STL. I usually do not wear a helmet and I refuse to take anyone under 18 for a ride on my bike - helmet or not, as there are inherent dangers in riding a bike on the road with automobiles.




41. - VanillaMan - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 2:48 pm:

    VMan never misses a chance to indulge a mindless stereotype. Stay classy, brother.

    Losen that ponytail wordslinger, it’s all good!




42. - David Ormsby - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 3:15 pm:

    For the goofball parents who let their kids mount a motorcycle without a helmet, we may not have a helmet law–but we have DCFS.




43. - Ghost - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 3:43 pm:

    47th, Illinois has a motorcyle safety training program it pushes instead of helmets. If you take that training course 20 something hours, you get the license. Statistically those who take that course have a lot fewer accidents etc.

    BTW if helmets are such a great life saver, why do we not require them for automobile drivers, boaters etc? One of the major contributors to death in auto accidents is head injuries, even with seatbelts and air bags.

    BTW the majority of fatalities, not to mention organ donors, come from automobile accidents.

    The number one cause of accidents in IL, driver error. Helemts, seat belts, air bags etc donot address the actual cause of accidents. Ways to reduce accidents, training. Second best way, elminate driving for those under 20.

    if we want to fix the problem of motorcycle and automobile accidents mandate safety training courses. If the automobile license exam required as many emergency maneuvers as required for motorcyle riders we could elminate a few more accidents as well.




44. - Bird Dog - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 4:02 pm:

    I believe the ISTEA federal highway penalty for no helmet law was abandoned during the Clinton administration.




45. - 47th Ward - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 4:14 pm:

    Ghost,

    I hear you and I agree. I’m not calling for a helmet law at all. I’ve given up trying.

    Illinois doesn’t mandate training, but you’re right it’s readily available and encouraged. I notice a lot of states that allow helmet-less riding for adults also require a minimum insurance policy. Texas comes to mind, and they require proof of at least $10,000 of insurance coverage. Is that a reasonable proposal for Illinois? I’m guessing ABATE would oppose that too.

    But don’t misunderstand my point (and I took and passed the motorcycle safety program), I’m not seeking a helmet law. I am seeking some public benefit though. And since I believe organ donations save lives, that idea makes sense to me.




46. - Can't Say My Nickname - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 6:09 pm:

    My ex took my 5 year old baby boy for a road trip on his motorcycle. No helmet, t-shirt, shorts, and sandels. His little legs and feet barely touched the foot pegs. I was livid. My ex told me he could do whatever he wanted to with my son during his visitation time. I contacted the police and was told nothing they could do - completely legal. I filed a motion to get an emergency court date, and couldn’t get in for 3 months. I had to take matters into my own hands. While I am not proud of what I did to his motorcycle, my son is alive and healthy. My ex could never figure out why his motorcycle wouldn’t run and he sold it.




47. - anon - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 7:15 pm:

    I own a motorcycle and I agree 100 percent with STL. I don’t want the government forcing me to wear a helmet, but have no problem in mandating those under 18 to do so. The fact is helmets do save lives. A good thread Rich, especially now with the weather warming up.




48. - Anonymous - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 7:21 pm:

    How did this not get more play here?

    {Judge James Zagel said Wednesday that “under the appropriate circumstances, [he is] not going to stop” Blagojevich’s lawyers from playing parts of the tapes if the former governor plans to testify. Adam says that’s the plan.

    SAM ADAM JR: When they’re played, and he gets up there on that stand, and you find out what he did and didn’t do, and he explains to you why he did the things and the whole deals were about and these types of things, you’re going to find out and say to yourself, ‘Man. Not only did we get rid of him - I’d vote for him again.’ }




49. - PPHS - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 8:09 pm:

    I taught the Motorcycle Safety Course, at one time in my life. Anyone that rides a motorcycle (or a bicycle) w/o a helmet is a mental midget.

    It doesn’t take much of an accident to ruin your life.

    And almost every motorcycle rider has an accident at some time.
    In mine, my rider’s head hit the pavement and cracked the helmet. She was fine. We were slowing and turning left when the car behind us hit us.




50. - Amalia - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 8:15 pm:

    anyone have some actual analysis of the votes, especially the present votes?




51. - anon - Thursday, Mar 18, 10 @ 8:28 pm:

    Brady supports gas chambers for dogs and cats and has no problem with kid’s brains being splattered on the streets because of a motorcycle accident. He is not a complete monster…. he does care about the children because he prevents them from being aborted by their parents.




52. - Portage_Parker - Friday, Mar 19, 10 @ 12:05 am:

    I heard Forby’s comments on the radio this evening - I swear he sounded just like the Captain of the chain gang in Cool Hand Luke. Enough said.




53. - R.I.C. Visitor - Friday, Mar 19, 10 @ 5:25 am:

    Nearly 20 years ago, a dear fried of mine was hospitalized at the Rehab Institute of Chicago. In his 70s, he was laid low by a bout of post-polio syndrome. What I was not prepared for upon arriving at RIC was the sheer number of young men in the lobby, enjoying the sunshine through the windows, each in a wheelchair. I think my jaw literally dropped.

    When I later discreetly inquired of a nurse how so many young men came to be paralyzed, she gave a one-word answer: “Motorcycles.”

    Like cigarettes, they’re legal and you can’t/shouldn’t be able to stop someone from buying them if that’s what they want. But if someone I loved wanted to buy one, I’d sure encourage them to first volunteer at RCI before putting their money down. If nothing else, I would hope it would cause them to ride defensively.

    As for voting against the helmet law for those under 18, well that’s just silly. As with immunizations and carseats, the state has a legitimate interest in protecting children from stupid parents.




54. - qchdrider - Saturday, Mar 20, 10 @ 12:42 am:

    47th Ward Illinois loses NO federal highway dollars because it has no hemet law - please get your facts straight




55. - grandma - Saturday, Mar 20, 10 @ 1:22 am:

    I would like to know how any parent can justify putting a 5 year old on the back of a motorcycle.Even wearing a helmet this is just stupidity.Is getting thrown off a bike and getting killed or handicapped for life worth going for a ride with daddy because daddy thinks it would be fun.Who’s going to be there when that little boy can’t run or play if he lives after being thrown off the bike. I’m sure it’s not going to be daddy taking care of him. I hope all parents out there think what can happen on a motorcyle to these children and when that child is gone how in heavens name will you ever sleep at night all because you wanted your son or daughter to go with you on a ride.Please have some common sense.

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