Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Alexi Giannoulias didn’t have to pay any state and federal income taxes last year because of big losses tied to his family’s failed Broadway Bank, according to his campaign and tax returns released Friday.
The wealthy state treasurer stands to collect about $30,000 in refunds, but immediately announced he would donate the money to charities. Giannoulias sought to avoid having his tax situation become a campaign issue that could anger voters who make less money, pay their taxes and don’t have much sympathy for a rich guy getting a break.
Giannoulias reported $2.7 million in losses last year. That represents the 3.6 percent he owned in non-voting bank shares, said campaign spokeswoman Kathleen Strand.
You can try burying a story before the 4th of July weekend, but people like me won’t let you.
Also, what Giannoulias doesn’t say is that a charitable donation would give himself another big tax deduction for this year’s return.
* If you thought that Mark Kirk would tread a bit lightly on this topic since fellow statewide Republican candidate Bill Brady is basically in the same boat, you’d be wrong. From a press release…
“Alexi Giannoulias wants to raise our taxes but doesn’t pay any taxes himself. After costing the FDIC $394 million and wiping out $73 million in college savings, Illinois voters can no longer afford Alexi Giannoulias.”
In response, the Giannoulias campaign flat-out lied…
When asked for comment by TPMDC, the Giannoulias camp turned the story right back to Kirk’s own personal dirt, relating to his previous inaccurate statements about his military record. Giannoulias spokesman Matt McGrath told us: “It comes as no surprise given his record of mistruths, half-truths and untruths about his military record, but when he says Alexi wants to raise taxes, Congressman Kirk is lying. Again.”
Giannoulias doesn’t want to raise taxes? Then why did he tell the Illinois Education Association that he’s “said from Day One,” that Illinois “needs an income tax increase”? Here’s the video…
Giannoulias also told the Chicago Tribune that if he is elected he would vote to let some current federal tax cuts expire, which is, in effect, a tax increase…
The Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans generated some of the largest deficits in U.S. history and contributed nearly $2 trillion to our deficits. Those tax cuts were unnecessary and irresponsible, and I would allow them to expire.
You can usually see the true character of a campaign during a crisis, and the Giannoulias campaign has totally failed the test this time.
* The Illinois Republican Party has called on Giannoulias to give the cash to the FDIC. From a press release…
The Illinois Republican Party today called on Alexi Giannoulias to send his $30,000 in tax refunds for 2009 to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) as a down payment on the $394 million loss the FDIC incurred after the collapse of Broadway Bank. […]
“Alexi Giannoulias’ unsafe and unsound banking practices ultimately led to the collapse of Broadway Bank and the loss of $394 million to the Federal Deposit Insurance Fund,” ILGOP Chairman Pat Brady said. “Alexi wants to raise our income taxes but doesn’t pay any income taxes himself. Instead of using his distasteful tax refund to win another tax write-off, Alexi should do the right thing and send his refund to the FDIC.”
Congressman Kirk just announced that he’s holding a press conference at one o’clock this afternoon. Kirk has a very real opportunity to turn this race around again. Charlie Cook recently moved this race from lean Republican to toss-up. It’ll probably go back to lean Republican again.
* My own opinion is that Giannoulias ought to write a check to the state and federal government equal to the amount owed on his state treasurer’s salary. It’s the same position I had on Bill Brady’s taxes.
Using private business losses to avoid paying taxes on an elected official’s government salary is just plain wrong. And it’s especially bogus during a period of time when the state can’t pay its bills and the federal deficit is soaring.
In addition to essentially donating the equivalent funds to the state and Federal governments as Rich suggests, Giannoulias ought to also announce he’ll lead the fight in the Senate to actually fix this lopsided anti-middle class tax code that conservatives have created over the years.
We need to plug up these types of loopholes so that secretaries will no longer end up owing more in taxes than folks like Warren Buffet, Alexi Giannoulias and Bill Brady.
I agree Giannoulis shouldn’t donate the refund, but return it. Just like Brady should not have accelerated his losses under the ARRA provisions to wipe out his liability (especially since he opposes stimulus measures).
However, I take issue with calling an expiration of tax cuts a tax increase. The cuts were unfunded and should never have been supported by anyone in favor of “fiscal responsibility” in the first instance. Returning us to the tax structure of the 1990s is not a hike, Rich, but a restoration of a tiny measure of sanity. Especially since we’ve basically borrowed the full cost of two wars since 2003.
Unfortunately for us in Illinois, the true character of several candidates has been exposed.
Speaking of the Illinois Education Association, I saw today that they endorsed Quinn (well, their word is “recommended”). Could potentially be big news for Quinn/Simon, though I’m sure the Brady campaign didn’t want the endorsement anyway.
Giannoulais probably doesn’t handle his money. Others handle his money for him. So, expecting him to personally take charge on this issue may be a challenge for him. We’re talking about a rich banker’s son, not a guy who had to work his way to this position. Consequentially, I doubt if he even knows how to do what you are asking him to do.
So, I expect some problems here. I expect some delays as his people talk to his other people to do what his political people are reading should be done by people like you. If this doesn’t get cleared up within the day, then he not only has a personal problem handling his own personal finances, he has organizational problems too.
I expect flak from Democrats defending him as though he needs to be defended. They will attack Kirk using the same lines they thought would derail his fundraising and derail his campaign. They will call Kirk a liar, blah, blah, blah, instead of pressuring Giannoulais and friends to clean this up on their own.
It is better to have senatorial candidates act like grown ups and handle their own poopy diapers. Let Giannoulais handle this on his own.
==However, I take issue with calling an expiration of tax cuts a tax increase. The cuts were unfunded and should never have been supported by anyone in favor of “fiscal responsibility” in the first instance. Returning us to the tax structure of the 1990s is not a hike, Rich, but a restoration of a tiny measure of sanity. Especially since we’ve basically borrowed the full cost of two wars since 2003. ==
In 2010 the tax brackets are at one level. In 2011 they will be at a higher level. Whether you think the Bush tax cuts were wise or not, letting them expire is a tax increase.
I think it is nonsense to expect politicians to pay more in taxes than someone else in a similar financial situation just because they are running for office.
Last night I watched WGN turn the IEA endorsement into a Brady endorsement by reporting that Quinn got the endorsement because he favored raising taxes and Brady was disliked because he favored education reform meansures for better efficiencies towards tax cuts.
What a couple of blunders by Alexi’s campaign. Bad enough to screw up the refund/donation but then to accuse your opponent of lying when there’s videotape evidence that he’s right? Who’s running the show for Alexi? Those are unforced errors that are giving the game back to Kirk.
let me clarify .. he might have wanted the money, but not the actual endorsement. You actually think he heavily courted the teachers unions? I might agree with you in the past. His words lately might say otherwise though.
For Alexi/Kirk it is all about fundraising. All of these ’scandals’, both Kirk and Alexi’s, are blown off by the public because it is summer time. Regardless of Charlie Cook, I think it is impossible to rate this race until next quarter’s fundraising numbers come out. If Kirk continues to dominate the money game like he has, I think he will eek out a win. I Alexi matches him or comes close I think he will sneak by. Pretty sad comment on modern elections but unfortunately thats how it is these days.
BTW Rich, kudos on writing on this today. I am a supporter of Alexi’s but I despise news dumps like this. Quinn has been doing it repeatedly for the last year and I think it is disingenuous and cynical. It is easier to get away with it now b/c the media is stretched so thin budget-wise they can’t really do anything about it.
1. Everyone please remember that the FDIC is funded by payments FROM BANKS. Broadway Bank put many millions of dollars into the FDIC during its history, as does every other bank.
2. Rich says: “Using private business losses to avoid paying taxes on an elected official’s government salary is just plain wrong.”
Huh? Was he supposed to lie and say he DIDN’T have any business losses? I don’t see how one can say that it is “wrong” to correctly fill out your tax forms.
And the money he is getting back is a refund of money he paid in. You can argue that the government is more needy than whatever charity he might pick but either way he is voluntarily giving away his own money.
Using private business losses to avoid paying taxes on an elected official’s government salary is just plain wrong.
But, if business were good, that SAME elected salary would have increased his taxes. So, it really is NOT wrong to take the loss as a credit.
To handle it politically, the way to go is
“I dont agree with the current tax code, here is how I would change it. But, like all other Americans, I obey the law as it exists. Not as I would like it to be, but as it is.
If this bothers you, elect me, and I’ll change it”
- Living in Oklahoma - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:41 am:
More inept campaigning by Kirk and Alexi. Can we just keep Roland?
I’m a rabid Republican. But I don’t have a complaint with Alexi on this one.
If there’s a problem with the tax laws, then lets fix them, rather than singling out a politician simply because his local H&R Block representative did a good job (yes, I’m kidding. I realize he wouldn’t use H&R block).
I’d be dissapointed in Alexi, as a business person if he didn’t try to use every LEGAL means that he could to reduce his income tax.
Were people from Boston outraged when Rose Kennedy used Florida as her legal residence to avoid estate taxes?
This is the same thing. Hate the law, but don’t hate the law abiding citizen.
I’m starting to think that the critique of each lie should
be accompanied by the name of the person and company
working for the candidate. X press person is the
contact for this release, Y company produced this mail piece,
Z consulting/advert firm produced this ad. I’m not
saying the candidate bears no fault, the candidate does
bear responsibility. but there are others complicit in
producing and directing the lie for the candidate. they
should not do that kind of work.
1. Everyone please remember that the FDIC is funded by payments FROM BANKS. Broadway Bank put many millions of dollars into the FDIC during its history, as does every other bank.
Quite true, but currently, the FDIC is underwater (its reserve does not meet its commitments) which puts the US Treasury on the hook (which means the taxpayer may have to bail out the FDIC).
Although I agree with Rich’s sentiment that Giannoulias and Brady should pay income tax on their government salary, this is not the law in either the federal or state tax system. Both individuals took full advantage of tax avoidance opportunities in the law and would speculate that both have significant enough losses to decrease their federal and state taxes in 2010 and the future.
Sorry, but the tax issue is so minor to me compared to the fact that the bank failed in the first place…and that Alexi had previously run on his expertise at that bank. I will be voting against Alexi for a multitude of reasons, but this isn’t one of them.
Has Alexi ever said anything about reforming the tax code? Because THAT is an issue that would attract my attention. If he came out strong on that position, and THEN gave back his “taxes” it might make some waves…but I’m not holding my breath, heh.
The issue that is missed in this discussion is whether Mr. Giannoulias also elected to carryback the excess losses from last year to obtain a refund for the taxes paid for prior years when he and other members of his family stripped their family owned bank of a substantial portion of its cash. Anything to report on the loss carryback issue?
Printer? of course I’m not blaming the printer. I’m blaming
staffers and consultants in addition to the candidate. yes, when
a campaign does something, it’s all on the name at the top, the
candidate, for what she or he did or did not do, for a lack of
leadership, including allowing consultants and staffers to do
something wrong, like perhaps a lie. just think, what would
you do? would you lie for a candidate? in print or on air?
I sure wouldn’t. which makes Alexi’s error more grave. but,
others are complicit.
I’m starting to think this isn’t accidental and that we’re all going to be subjected to this–and maybe even worse–until November. Everyone promised that this race was going to be “dirty”, but come on.
And yeah, alot of it probably is being done for fundraising purposes. However, if this is what the people who control the major purse strings want nowadays, maybe they should consider the “light” they’re putting the candidates in and perhaps some of the Voter “disgust” that might even carry over into the winner’s term.
With regard to the tax refund, I think that if Giannoulias and Brady were entitled to it, they had every right to take it. And IMO, raising taxes is not the same as taking a deduction to which you’re entitled. Don’t like the idea of anyone raising taxes, but that shouldn’t preclude a person from taking a deduction if allowed.
And even though I hate to say it, Giannoulias’ taking that money and donating it to charity–though I’m sure it’s being done for political purposes as well–is admirable. I’d say that about anyone, so I have to say it about Giannoulias, too.
And just one more quick thought (call me politically naive, if you’d like): It’s starting to look an awful lot like we have two “pawns” who are dancing more so than ever to the tune set by those controlling the purses.
What happened to “winning the hearts and minds” of the people? Guess that’s often touted nowadays as the new strategy for winning wars.
Too bad American Citizens can no longer enjoy that “privilege” in their own Country.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:42 am:
This is an indictment of our tax law, not these two candidates. Am I reading this right? They filled out their taxes legally and legitimately, and you all are calling for them to give part of their salary to charity? Why don’t you make them turn their businesses into cooperatives?!
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:04 pm:
Exactly, Planet. And I’ll add that this controversy seems grounded in REPUBLICAN values and principles.
Mike MacD says, “I think it is nonsense to expect politicians to pay more in taxes than someone else in a similar financial situation just because they are running for office.”
Rich responds, “we require politicians to do a lot of things that “normal” people don’t do.”
All the more reason to fix the conservatives’ anti-middle class tax codes.
Yes, Rich, we do ask politicians to do a lot of things normal people don’t do.
We don’t legally require politicians to release their tax filings though. (Ethics statements do require certain amounts of financial disclosure, but releasing tax info is voluntary.)
Requiring politicians to pay more in taxes than other folks in similar fiscal/legal situations doesn’t make sense though.
And how far do you take this special circumstance? Should a village manager or a school janitor (neither of whom are elected to those public-sector positions) be legally required to pay taxes on the government funded salary no matter what even if they also run a business which experiences financial losses to an extent that they can legally not pay taxes?
Closing the conservatives’ anti-middle class tax loopholes will solve the issues raised by both you and Mike MacD.
Howsabout an example of a law that is in effect (or should be by Rich’s call) that requires (or should require) a “politician” to pay extra in taxes for the privelege of serving in office? I have never heard tell of such stuff in all my years. Would an elected dog catcher have to pay more in taxes? What politician would vote for such a law?
All this tax stuff is nonsense, IMO. Did AG follow the laws as they are written? Did Brady follow the laws as written? This kind of populist smearing is an example of anti-wealth demagoguery. You ain’t got it so you spit on those who do. Easy to do, just put your lips together and ptoooiee. If it makes you feel better…..
There are so many other issues with some of these jamokes that are much more to the point. Why this nonsense?
While we may ask more of our elected officials, getting them to be virtuous and competent is enough, I think.
- Louis G. Atsaves - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:14 pm:
I’ve never been a big fan of demanding that candidates release their tax returns. I’ve said so here in the past.
But fair is fair.
Now that Giannoulias also has not paid a dime in taxes, similar to Brady, where is the outrage in the comments section? All I see is muted mumblings.
Everyone seemed to be outraged when Brady did it. Now its time for everyone to be outraged with Giannoulias for doing it.
Wont be so easy for Alexi to cut his campaign any 6-7 figure checks after not paying any taxes last year. That will not pass the smell test here or with the rest of the media.
Nowhere do I suggest that Giannoulias broke the law.
What I do say is that elected officials have an obligation to pay taxes on the income they make from taxpayers.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:52 pm:
=While we may ask more of our elected officials, getting them to be virtuous and competent is enough, I think. =
lol Enough? I’ll add “honorable” to the list, too, if I may.
And even without that addition, it’s an up-hill battle all the way–and you might say those of us out front “trying” could be considered “forlorn hope”.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:55 pm:
=Everyone seemed to be outraged when Brady did it. Now its time for everyone to be outraged with Giannoulias for doing it.=
Pat Quinn still hasnt shown that he paid taxes on the income he recieved from his Senate campaign fund. Quinn kept this fund up and running even though he never ran for the senate. Quinn recieved income for this fund but has failed to show he paid taxes on this income. No one new about Quinns little game until after he showed his tax returns for just the one quick look.
Why should anyone feel obligated to do what is not required by law with respect to taxes? As much as Mrs DuPage Dan and I try to use the tax code to eke out some small return as W2 folk, we do so in earnest. If we could do more we would. I do not begrudge wealthy individuals their wealth. My mother told me not to compare myself to others, so I don’t.
If you believe that a politician should pay taxes on their salary irrespective of any outside income, you can propose that and try to get it enacted into law. Otherwise, there is a plethora of campaign fodder out there that is ripe for exposure and discussion/ridicule/defense. Why flog this dead horse?
Both Giannoulias and Brady did pay income tax on their state salaries as reported on their respective returns. It is their outside business interests that generated losses that wiped out taxable income and led to refunds.
As I noted above, Segatari, I never said it was illegal. There are legal things that are wrong. Some would say abortion is wrong although it is quite legal.
I’m arguing for some common sense politics here, not necessarily advocating for a change in laws.
Also, there’s no state or federal law requiring anybody to accept a full refund or preventing them from giving that money back. It’s a choice. They both made the wrong choice, in my mind. We’ll see who’s right come TV ad time.
I’m confused — when that big study came out about how only 45% of the population pays taxes, I thought they were talking about welfare mothers, not titans of commerce like Brady and Alexi.
It’s how all this looks to “the people” that Alexi needs to be worrying about. Not what it looks like to the IRS.
Alexi’s crew boldly calling Kirk a liar for aptly and correctly pointing out Alexi’s well documented and videoed stance on tax increases/letting the existing tax cuts expire, is what will cause AG the longer term pain, though. That taunting gesture just made Alexi look childish and the media will certainly not give him a pass on it after being so tough on Kirk and digging up embarrassing old video footage of him.
Just to be clear, word, 45% of taxpayers pay federal income tax. From a perception perspective, the case can be made that those receiving a tax paid salary should pay tax on that irrespective of any outside income tax burden. Not a game breaking issue, in my mind. There is so much more to look at, so much more that is relevant to the candidates ability to do the job. Not that I want to look that closely, for what I see of all of ‘em almost makes me wish I lived in Arkansas.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:27 pm:
Yeah. That’s probably true, word. However, IMO the “likeability” factor is still in play. Even Dems like someone “glam” with money, hate to see the “American Dream” die (especially when there’s a deceased father involved who started the dream) and watch someone else “beat” it to a second painful death in the media.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:30 pm:
The shame is that Kirk probably could have used this all to his advantage, if the Campaign had been willing to show even just a LITTLE reserve and compassion.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:50 pm:
So Responsa, like Louis, seems to think this all has to do with “payback”. OK, obviously important to stay on offense v. defense, but “payback”–and clearly stating that’s what it is? I dunno.
Hopefully, one of these guys will soon get tired of wrestling in the mud with the other–for whatever reason–go home, look in the mirror, and decide to start “selling” what he actually has to offer the Voters of Illinois.
I’m sorry, REAL Anonymous–I do not understand your comment which references me, and “payback” or how it relates to what I actually said at 3:21. Don’t you think that honestly talking about taxation issues is much more relevant and important to voters than what the candidates have been slinging mud about for the past two months?
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 4:08 pm:
Sorry, Responsa, but I based my “payback” assumption based on the following statement made by you:
“…and the media will certainly not give him a pass on it after being so tough on Kirk and digging up embarrassing old video footage of him.”
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 4:10 pm:
Hope the wabbit doesn’t think that way. Might be kind of wisky.
I don’t think the tax return forms have a checkbox for “I’d like to pay taxes I don’t owe, please don’t send me my refund.” My guess is that Giannoulias must consider that refund way more of a headache than it’s worth considering this kind of predicable overreaction, but he is likely legally required to declare his losses, and you can’t just fudge your tax forms to make the numbers look better. The alarmism over this is silliness.
- shore - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:11 am:
perfect. I look forward to skyping you the debates in the fall.
- Rob_N - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:11 am:
In addition to essentially donating the equivalent funds to the state and Federal governments as Rich suggests, Giannoulias ought to also announce he’ll lead the fight in the Senate to actually fix this lopsided anti-middle class tax code that conservatives have created over the years.
We need to plug up these types of loopholes so that secretaries will no longer end up owing more in taxes than folks like Warren Buffet, Alexi Giannoulias and Bill Brady.
- Leroy - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:15 am:
Send in his tax refund to pay off the losses Broadway Bank dumped on the taxpayers? Ha.
How about using some of those profit dividends Broadway Bank payed out to Alexi and his clan prior to them sticking the taxpayers with the losses?
That was some real money compared to the $30k chump change tax return refund.
- Verdicto - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:17 am:
Kirk and Bill Brady need to have a debate on this issue.
- Ravenswood Right Winger - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:18 am:
That’s a pretty good press release by the IL GOP.
- Berkeley Bear - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:19 am:
I agree Giannoulis shouldn’t donate the refund, but return it. Just like Brady should not have accelerated his losses under the ARRA provisions to wipe out his liability (especially since he opposes stimulus measures).
However, I take issue with calling an expiration of tax cuts a tax increase. The cuts were unfunded and should never have been supported by anyone in favor of “fiscal responsibility” in the first instance. Returning us to the tax structure of the 1990s is not a hike, Rich, but a restoration of a tiny measure of sanity. Especially since we’ve basically borrowed the full cost of two wars since 2003.
- ShadyBillBrady - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:24 am:
Unfortunately for us in Illinois, the true character of several candidates has been exposed.
Speaking of the Illinois Education Association, I saw today that they endorsed Quinn (well, their word is “recommended”). Could potentially be big news for Quinn/Simon, though I’m sure the Brady campaign didn’t want the endorsement anyway.
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:25 am:
Giannoulais probably doesn’t handle his money. Others handle his money for him. So, expecting him to personally take charge on this issue may be a challenge for him. We’re talking about a rich banker’s son, not a guy who had to work his way to this position. Consequentially, I doubt if he even knows how to do what you are asking him to do.
So, I expect some problems here. I expect some delays as his people talk to his other people to do what his political people are reading should be done by people like you. If this doesn’t get cleared up within the day, then he not only has a personal problem handling his own personal finances, he has organizational problems too.
I expect flak from Democrats defending him as though he needs to be defended. They will attack Kirk using the same lines they thought would derail his fundraising and derail his campaign. They will call Kirk a liar, blah, blah, blah, instead of pressuring Giannoulais and friends to clean this up on their own.
It is better to have senatorial candidates act like grown ups and handle their own poopy diapers. Let Giannoulais handle this on his own.
- dave - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:28 am:
I’m sure the Brady campaign didn’t want the endorsement anyway.
Don’t be so sure. He pretty aggressively courted the teachers unions.
- well - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:29 am:
==However, I take issue with calling an expiration of tax cuts a tax increase. The cuts were unfunded and should never have been supported by anyone in favor of “fiscal responsibility” in the first instance. Returning us to the tax structure of the 1990s is not a hike, Rich, but a restoration of a tiny measure of sanity. Especially since we’ve basically borrowed the full cost of two wars since 2003. ==
In 2010 the tax brackets are at one level. In 2011 they will be at a higher level. Whether you think the Bush tax cuts were wise or not, letting them expire is a tax increase.
- MikeMacD - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:31 am:
I think it is nonsense to expect politicians to pay more in taxes than someone else in a similar financial situation just because they are running for office.
- VanillaMan - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:31 am:
Last night I watched WGN turn the IEA endorsement into a Brady endorsement by reporting that Quinn got the endorsement because he favored raising taxes and Brady was disliked because he favored education reform meansures for better efficiencies towards tax cuts.
Quinn can’t win like that.
- Hipster - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:32 am:
What a couple of blunders by Alexi’s campaign. Bad enough to screw up the refund/donation but then to accuse your opponent of lying when there’s videotape evidence that he’s right? Who’s running the show for Alexi? Those are unforced errors that are giving the game back to Kirk.
- Leroy - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:32 am:
“No one lost a dime when Mark Kirk lied”
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:32 am:
MikeMacD, we require politicians to do a lot of things that “normal” people don’t do. Deal with it.
- ShadyBillBrady - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:33 am:
Dave
let me clarify .. he might have wanted the money, but not the actual endorsement. You actually think he heavily courted the teachers unions? I might agree with you in the past. His words lately might say otherwise though.
- Cosmic Charlie - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:34 am:
For Alexi/Kirk it is all about fundraising. All of these ’scandals’, both Kirk and Alexi’s, are blown off by the public because it is summer time. Regardless of Charlie Cook, I think it is impossible to rate this race until next quarter’s fundraising numbers come out. If Kirk continues to dominate the money game like he has, I think he will eek out a win. I Alexi matches him or comes close I think he will sneak by. Pretty sad comment on modern elections but unfortunately thats how it is these days.
BTW Rich, kudos on writing on this today. I am a supporter of Alexi’s but I despise news dumps like this. Quinn has been doing it repeatedly for the last year and I think it is disingenuous and cynical. It is easier to get away with it now b/c the media is stretched so thin budget-wise they can’t really do anything about it.
- Lakefront Liberal - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:37 am:
1. Everyone please remember that the FDIC is funded by payments FROM BANKS. Broadway Bank put many millions of dollars into the FDIC during its history, as does every other bank.
2. Rich says: “Using private business losses to avoid paying taxes on an elected official’s government salary is just plain wrong.”
Huh? Was he supposed to lie and say he DIDN’T have any business losses? I don’t see how one can say that it is “wrong” to correctly fill out your tax forms.
And the money he is getting back is a refund of money he paid in. You can argue that the government is more needy than whatever charity he might pick but either way he is voluntarily giving away his own money.
- MikeMacD - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:37 am:
Rich,
I believe I am by calling your position nonsense. Deal with it.
- Pat Collins - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:38 am:
Using private business losses to avoid paying taxes on an elected official’s government salary is just plain wrong.
But, if business were good, that SAME elected salary would have increased his taxes. So, it really is NOT wrong to take the loss as a credit.
To handle it politically, the way to go is
“I dont agree with the current tax code, here is how I would change it. But, like all other Americans, I obey the law as it exists. Not as I would like it to be, but as it is.
If this bothers you, elect me, and I’ll change it”
- Living in Oklahoma - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:41 am:
More inept campaigning by Kirk and Alexi. Can we just keep Roland?
- Downstater - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:42 am:
I’m a rabid Republican. But I don’t have a complaint with Alexi on this one.
If there’s a problem with the tax laws, then lets fix them, rather than singling out a politician simply because his local H&R Block representative did a good job (yes, I’m kidding. I realize he wouldn’t use H&R block).
I’d be dissapointed in Alexi, as a business person if he didn’t try to use every LEGAL means that he could to reduce his income tax.
Were people from Boston outraged when Rose Kennedy used Florida as her legal residence to avoid estate taxes?
This is the same thing. Hate the law, but don’t hate the law abiding citizen.
- Loop Lady - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:45 am:
Dear Living: I expressed this sentiment a couple of weeks ago and couldn’t agree more…
- bdogg - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:49 am:
Living in Oklahoma/Loop Lady, so don’t vote for either of them, vote for LeAlan Jones, Green Party.
- Amalia - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:52 am:
I’m starting to think that the critique of each lie should
be accompanied by the name of the person and company
working for the candidate. X press person is the
contact for this release, Y company produced this mail piece,
Z consulting/advert firm produced this ad. I’m not
saying the candidate bears no fault, the candidate does
bear responsibility. but there are others complicit in
producing and directing the lie for the candidate. they
should not do that kind of work.
- Pat Collins - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:54 am:
Y company produced this mail piece,
Z consulting/advert firm produced this ad.
You can’t expect the printer to fact check things! And frankly, in such things, jobs are kind of hard to come by. The blame is on the candidate.
If he can’t run his campaign, how on earth can he handle the office??
- Small Town Liberal - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:55 am:
MikeMacD - Wow, you’re the first person ever to realize politics doesn’t always make sense. Congratulations on being so smart.
- Wumpus - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:58 am:
He played within the rules. Brady is right, ALexi is wrong..or is it the other way around?
- Cincinnatus - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:00 am:
- Lakefront Liberal - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 10:37 am:
1. Everyone please remember that the FDIC is funded by payments FROM BANKS. Broadway Bank put many millions of dollars into the FDIC during its history, as does every other bank.
Quite true, but currently, the FDIC is underwater (its reserve does not meet its commitments) which puts the US Treasury on the hook (which means the taxpayer may have to bail out the FDIC).
- Jim - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:03 am:
Can I vote for Lar Daley for US Senate?
- lake county democrat - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:05 am:
Thanks for not running, Lisa.
- WRMNpolitics - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:07 am:
Although I agree with Rich’s sentiment that Giannoulias and Brady should pay income tax on their government salary, this is not the law in either the federal or state tax system. Both individuals took full advantage of tax avoidance opportunities in the law and would speculate that both have significant enough losses to decrease their federal and state taxes in 2010 and the future.
- Liandro - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:12 am:
Sorry, but the tax issue is so minor to me compared to the fact that the bank failed in the first place…and that Alexi had previously run on his expertise at that bank. I will be voting against Alexi for a multitude of reasons, but this isn’t one of them.
Has Alexi ever said anything about reforming the tax code? Because THAT is an issue that would attract my attention. If he came out strong on that position, and THEN gave back his “taxes” it might make some waves…but I’m not holding my breath, heh.
- Rising Son - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:15 am:
The issue that is missed in this discussion is whether Mr. Giannoulias also elected to carryback the excess losses from last year to obtain a refund for the taxes paid for prior years when he and other members of his family stripped their family owned bank of a substantial portion of its cash. Anything to report on the loss carryback issue?
- OneMan - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:21 am:
So are the actual returns available? I am kind of curious how he realized the loss since the FDIC didn’t take over the bank until this year.
Did he sell his shares in the bank last year?
- Amalia - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:31 am:
Printer? of course I’m not blaming the printer. I’m blaming
staffers and consultants in addition to the candidate. yes, when
a campaign does something, it’s all on the name at the top, the
candidate, for what she or he did or did not do, for a lack of
leadership, including allowing consultants and staffers to do
something wrong, like perhaps a lie. just think, what would
you do? would you lie for a candidate? in print or on air?
I sure wouldn’t. which makes Alexi’s error more grave. but,
others are complicit.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:33 am:
=More inept campaigning by Kirk and Alexi.=
I’m starting to think this isn’t accidental and that we’re all going to be subjected to this–and maybe even worse–until November. Everyone promised that this race was going to be “dirty”, but come on.
And yeah, alot of it probably is being done for fundraising purposes. However, if this is what the people who control the major purse strings want nowadays, maybe they should consider the “light” they’re putting the candidates in and perhaps some of the Voter “disgust” that might even carry over into the winner’s term.
With regard to the tax refund, I think that if Giannoulias and Brady were entitled to it, they had every right to take it. And IMO, raising taxes is not the same as taking a deduction to which you’re entitled. Don’t like the idea of anyone raising taxes, but that shouldn’t preclude a person from taking a deduction if allowed.
And even though I hate to say it, Giannoulias’ taking that money and donating it to charity–though I’m sure it’s being done for political purposes as well–is admirable. I’d say that about anyone, so I have to say it about Giannoulias, too.
- Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:39 am:
And just one more quick thought (call me politically naive, if you’d like): It’s starting to look an awful lot like we have two “pawns” who are dancing more so than ever to the tune set by those controlling the purses.
What happened to “winning the hearts and minds” of the people? Guess that’s often touted nowadays as the new strategy for winning wars.
Too bad American Citizens can no longer enjoy that “privilege” in their own Country.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:42 am:
Sorry. The last two were mine.
- what planet? - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 11:49 am:
This is an indictment of our tax law, not these two candidates. Am I reading this right? They filled out their taxes legally and legitimately, and you all are calling for them to give part of their salary to charity? Why don’t you make them turn their businesses into cooperatives?!
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:04 pm:
Exactly, Planet. And I’ll add that this controversy seems grounded in REPUBLICAN values and principles.
Today’s presser should be very interesting.
- Rob_N - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:08 pm:
Mike MacD says, “I think it is nonsense to expect politicians to pay more in taxes than someone else in a similar financial situation just because they are running for office.”
Rich responds, “we require politicians to do a lot of things that “normal” people don’t do.”
All the more reason to fix the conservatives’ anti-middle class tax codes.
Yes, Rich, we do ask politicians to do a lot of things normal people don’t do.
We don’t legally require politicians to release their tax filings though. (Ethics statements do require certain amounts of financial disclosure, but releasing tax info is voluntary.)
Requiring politicians to pay more in taxes than other folks in similar fiscal/legal situations doesn’t make sense though.
And how far do you take this special circumstance? Should a village manager or a school janitor (neither of whom are elected to those public-sector positions) be legally required to pay taxes on the government funded salary no matter what even if they also run a business which experiences financial losses to an extent that they can legally not pay taxes?
Closing the conservatives’ anti-middle class tax loopholes will solve the issues raised by both you and Mike MacD.
- dupage dan - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:09 pm:
Howsabout an example of a law that is in effect (or should be by Rich’s call) that requires (or should require) a “politician” to pay extra in taxes for the privelege of serving in office? I have never heard tell of such stuff in all my years. Would an elected dog catcher have to pay more in taxes? What politician would vote for such a law?
All this tax stuff is nonsense, IMO. Did AG follow the laws as they are written? Did Brady follow the laws as written? This kind of populist smearing is an example of anti-wealth demagoguery. You ain’t got it so you spit on those who do. Easy to do, just put your lips together and ptoooiee. If it makes you feel better…..
There are so many other issues with some of these jamokes that are much more to the point. Why this nonsense?
While we may ask more of our elected officials, getting them to be virtuous and competent is enough, I think.
- Louis G. Atsaves - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:14 pm:
I’ve never been a big fan of demanding that candidates release their tax returns. I’ve said so here in the past.
But fair is fair.
Now that Giannoulias also has not paid a dime in taxes, similar to Brady, where is the outrage in the comments section? All I see is muted mumblings.
Everyone seemed to be outraged when Brady did it. Now its time for everyone to be outraged with Giannoulias for doing it.
Politics sure can be strange!
- Bakersfield - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:30 pm:
Wont be so easy for Alexi to cut his campaign any 6-7 figure checks after not paying any taxes last year. That will not pass the smell test here or with the rest of the media.
- Wumpus - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:31 pm:
WRMN Politics, even if he did pay on his state salary, wouldn’t the net stil be a refund?
I see no problem legally with either since they followed the law and had an overall loss.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:39 pm:
Nowhere do I suggest that Giannoulias broke the law.
What I do say is that elected officials have an obligation to pay taxes on the income they make from taxpayers.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:52 pm:
=While we may ask more of our elected officials, getting them to be virtuous and competent is enough, I think. =
lol Enough? I’ll add “honorable” to the list, too, if I may.
And even without that addition, it’s an up-hill battle all the way–and you might say those of us out front “trying” could be considered “forlorn hope”.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 12:55 pm:
=Everyone seemed to be outraged when Brady did it. Now its time for everyone to be outraged with Giannoulias for doing it.=
See, Louis, this is EXACTLY the problem.
Doing what’s RIGHT is simply doing WHAT’S RIGHT.
- Fed up - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 1:45 pm:
Pat Quinn still hasnt shown that he paid taxes on the income he recieved from his Senate campaign fund. Quinn kept this fund up and running even though he never ran for the senate. Quinn recieved income for this fund but has failed to show he paid taxes on this income. No one new about Quinns little game until after he showed his tax returns for just the one quick look.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 1:48 pm:
===Quinn recieved income for this fund but has failed to show he paid taxes on this income.===
OneMan got a look at the returns and says Quinn did pay income tax on that money.
- dupage dan - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 2:09 pm:
Why should anyone feel obligated to do what is not required by law with respect to taxes? As much as Mrs DuPage Dan and I try to use the tax code to eke out some small return as W2 folk, we do so in earnest. If we could do more we would. I do not begrudge wealthy individuals their wealth. My mother told me not to compare myself to others, so I don’t.
If you believe that a politician should pay taxes on their salary irrespective of any outside income, you can propose that and try to get it enacted into law. Otherwise, there is a plethora of campaign fodder out there that is ripe for exposure and discussion/ridicule/defense. Why flog this dead horse?
- WRMNpolitics - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:01 pm:
Both Giannoulias and Brady did pay income tax on their state salaries as reported on their respective returns. It is their outside business interests that generated losses that wiped out taxable income and led to refunds.
- Segatari - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:03 pm:
>Using private business losses to avoid paying taxes on an elected official’s government salary is just plain wrong.
But it’s LEGAL. Unless you have the tax law changed you can call it wrong all you want but it doesn’t make it wrong.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:06 pm:
As I noted above, Segatari, I never said it was illegal. There are legal things that are wrong. Some would say abortion is wrong although it is quite legal.
I’m arguing for some common sense politics here, not necessarily advocating for a change in laws.
- Rich Miller - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:08 pm:
Also, there’s no state or federal law requiring anybody to accept a full refund or preventing them from giving that money back. It’s a choice. They both made the wrong choice, in my mind. We’ll see who’s right come TV ad time.
- wordslinger - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:20 pm:
I’m confused — when that big study came out about how only 45% of the population pays taxes, I thought they were talking about welfare mothers, not titans of commerce like Brady and Alexi.
Not really.
- Responsa - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:21 pm:
It’s how all this looks to “the people” that Alexi needs to be worrying about. Not what it looks like to the IRS.
Alexi’s crew boldly calling Kirk a liar for aptly and correctly pointing out Alexi’s well documented and videoed stance on tax increases/letting the existing tax cuts expire, is what will cause AG the longer term pain, though. That taunting gesture just made Alexi look childish and the media will certainly not give him a pass on it after being so tough on Kirk and digging up embarrassing old video footage of him.
- dupage dan - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:26 pm:
Just to be clear, word, 45% of taxpayers pay federal income tax. From a perception perspective, the case can be made that those receiving a tax paid salary should pay tax on that irrespective of any outside income tax burden. Not a game breaking issue, in my mind. There is so much more to look at, so much more that is relevant to the candidates ability to do the job. Not that I want to look that closely, for what I see of all of ‘em almost makes me wish I lived in Arkansas.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:27 pm:
Yeah. That’s probably true, word. However, IMO the “likeability” factor is still in play. Even Dems like someone “glam” with money, hate to see the “American Dream” die (especially when there’s a deceased father involved who started the dream) and watch someone else “beat” it to a second painful death in the media.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:30 pm:
The shame is that Kirk probably could have used this all to his advantage, if the Campaign had been willing to show even just a LITTLE reserve and compassion.
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 3:50 pm:
So Responsa, like Louis, seems to think this all has to do with “payback”. OK, obviously important to stay on offense v. defense, but “payback”–and clearly stating that’s what it is? I dunno.
Hopefully, one of these guys will soon get tired of wrestling in the mud with the other–for whatever reason–go home, look in the mirror, and decide to start “selling” what he actually has to offer the Voters of Illinois.
- Responsa - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 4:05 pm:
I’m sorry, REAL Anonymous–I do not understand your comment which references me, and “payback” or how it relates to what I actually said at 3:21. Don’t you think that honestly talking about taxation issues is much more relevant and important to voters than what the candidates have been slinging mud about for the past two months?
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 4:08 pm:
Sorry, Responsa, but I based my “payback” assumption based on the following statement made by you:
“…and the media will certainly not give him a pass on it after being so tough on Kirk and digging up embarrassing old video footage of him.”
- The REAL Anonymous fka Anonymous - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 4:10 pm:
Hope the wabbit doesn’t think that way. Might be kind of wisky.
- Responsa - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 4:12 pm:
LOL, REAL. I guess I don’t consider that “payback”. I consider it fair reporting. Thanks for posting the clarification, though.
- Lee - Tuesday, Jul 6, 10 @ 6:30 pm:
I don’t think the tax return forms have a checkbox for “I’d like to pay taxes I don’t owe, please don’t send me my refund.” My guess is that Giannoulias must consider that refund way more of a headache than it’s worth considering this kind of predicable overreaction, but he is likely legally required to declare his losses, and you can’t just fudge your tax forms to make the numbers look better. The alarmism over this is silliness.