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Quinn cool on gaming, but will he change his mind?
Wednesday, Nov 10, 2010 - Posted by Rich Miller * Gov. Pat Quinn talks about casino expansion and slots at tracks…
He’s right that we can’t gamble our way to prosperity. But I don’t think anyone is talking about making Illinois “the Las Vegas of the Midwest.” What they’re talking about is adding four new casinos, one in Lake County, one in Chicago, one in southern Cook and one in Danville, plus slots at tracks. Las Vegas has 1,701 casinos. We’d need to do a whole lot more expanding to get to that level. * Sen. Mike Jacobs makes sense…
Jacobs was referring to Iowa boats in his calculation, but it’s still true. And it seems a bit silly to me that the Quads have three boats and Chicago has zero. It also seems ludicrous that we’re allowing all those south suburban people to stream across the Indiana border to hand over their gambling losses to the Hoosiers. * So, will Quinn change his mind? Sen. Syverson also makes sense…
* From a press release…
Anyone else see the irony in that quote? * Look, gambling is not exactly popular. And I, for one, am not fully comfortable with the government being an active participant in a scam. And make no mistake, gambling is a scam (for everyone but my wife, that is, who always wins). They don’t build those fabulous casinos because they lose. It’s a tax on people who can’t do math. But it’s an almost purely voluntary tax. Nobody forces anybody to go to those casinos. I also don’t think adding four casinos and slots at tracks puts us on any sort of slippery slope to becoming the next Vegas. We’ve had boats for twenty years and there are only ten licenses, and it took years to find a home for that tenth license. Any expansion takes a huge effort. And expansion attempts fail about 99 percent of the time. It’s been a decade since the last one. * There are also real concerns that more gaming could mean less consumer purchasing here. And considering the lack of current retail demand in our economy, that question should be addressed. All in all, though, governing is inherently a balancing act. If new casinos do little real damage and help us balance the budget a bit without new taxes, then the scale tips in their direction. Some have real moral qualms. But Illinois is hardly Sodom and Gomorrah, and neither is Iowa, Missouri or Indiana, the three states we compete with. What we need is some sober, rational analysis and thought, not bizarre scare tactics by a petulant governor who demands that the General Assembly pass his tax increase before they do anything else. * Meanwhile, Comptroller-elect Judy Baar Topinka and Treasurer-elect Dan Rutherford have a warning for Gov. Quinn. No short-term borrowing unless they believe it’s a decent plan that the state can afford…
* Related…
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- Ahoy - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:23 am:
Why would we put a casino in Danville? I know it’s a boarder community, but who the heck wants to drive to Danville? Just seems like you could put on in a better place.
So we can’t gamble or cut our way to prosperity but we can tax our way there?
- soccermom - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:26 am:
“I have a number of questions about any type of short term borrowing,” she said. “What will the money be used for, how long will it be out, and is there money for the state to pay it back?”
Um, could someone please reassure the Comptroller-Elect that by law there is, in fact, quite a lot of paperwork that answers exactly these questions. What did she think, that short-term borrowing is accomplished by Dave Vaught stopping the Comptroller in the hallway and asking: “I will gladly pay you Thursday for a hamburger today?”
- Mclean GOP - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:28 am:
I think Illinois gave a ‘mandate’ to quinn when they put repubs in control of the money.
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:29 am:
With a Chicago casino, you can probably make a nice one-time shot with a license fee and increased taxes, taking business from the Indiana, Joliet and Elgin casinos.
I’m not sure if there are investors for the other licenses. The Midwest is pretty saturated with gambling. Casinos here are now another entertainment option, not a destination driver.
- Been There - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:31 am:
===and neither is Iowa, Missouri or Indiana, the three states we compete with====
Don’t forget Wisconsin and Michigan. They both have Indian casinos that are grabbing our residents. That is evident by all the marketing they do in Chicago.
If Illinois residents are going to spend money at gambling they may as well do it here.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:31 am:
I agree with Rich that we need to be objective and rational.
I have yet to see a comprehensive study that concludes anything but legalized gambling is a net loss for society.
Rich is right that gambling is a tax on people who can’t do math, but wrong that its a voluntary tax. If we believe that, then we have to believe that every scam that people fall for “voluntarily” should be legal.
We should call gambling what it is: a scam.
According to the gambling industry, their ideal patron is someone who lives within 30 minutes of the casino and loses an average of $100 a week.
Who would voluntarily lose $5000 a year at a casino except a total pigeon?
And how do casinos figure out which pigeons to pluck? Well, the join the casino’s Preferred Member’s Club, which means the casino knows where they live, how often they gamble, and how much they lose.
Live close enough, gamble often enough, and lose the right amount and you’ll find your mailbox jammed with all sorts of special offers for steak dinners, etc.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:31 am:
===repubs in control of the money. ===
Other than approving short-term borrowing and writing the checks, the Republicans are not in control of the money. However, a hostile comptroller can make a governor’s life miserable.
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:34 am:
Instead of trying to figure out how to grab gambling business from Iowa, we should figure out why IBM just located 1300 jobs in Dubuque instead of downstate Illinois.
- Anonymous - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:42 am:
Maybe IBM went to Dubuque because Iowa has legalized gay marriages. See other thread.
- hisgirlfriday - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:43 am:
Is it even just South Suburban people who go to Indiana to gamble?
When my friends who live in the city, even the north side, want to gamble they go to Hammond because they find it more convenient to get to and a better casino to gamble at.
I don’t know that we need more suburban casinos (although I understand that’s necessary for the compromise needed to achieve a downtown casino) but a downtown casino would at least add something more to attract conventions/tourists in the city.
- 42nd Ward - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:46 am:
I guess the Republicans again have a pulse in Illinois state government, however limited.
- 47th Ward - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 11:52 am:
No more casinos in Illinois. Please.
The video poker component of the capital bill should be amended. It should divide the 65,000 machines among the existing casinos and add them at all Illinois racetracks and OTBs, places that are already approved for gaming. By the time the gaming board approves bars, restaurants and fraternal organizations to have the legal machines, we’ll all be retired. The bonds won’t repay themselves, so we need the revenue as soon as possible. This solution is the fastest, fairest way to expand gambling enough to meet our commitments, without expanding adding new locations.
We need to end this addiction to gambling as a budget panacea and put an end to the myth of pain-free revenue.
- Amalia - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 12:03 pm:
maybe Quinn is just waiting out both sides of the equation. of course it makes sense to have a casino in Chicago, what, people who fly to Chicago to visit Navy Pier and the Art Institute decide to drive to Elgin or Indiana if they want to gamble? nope.
oh, and soccermom at 11:26 totally rocked it!!!!! jbt is not too bright.
- hisgirlfriday - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 12:03 pm:
Ahoy,
Danville actually is a pretty good spot in terms of filling in gaps of areas with no casinos… at least in theory.
There are no casinos on the eastern border of Illinois or the western border of Indiana so in theory a casino in Danville could capture customers not just in Danville, but Champaign-Urbana, Charleston, LaFayette and maybe even Terre Haute.
- ChicagoR - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 12:17 pm:
“Casinos here are now another entertainment option, not a destination driver.”
While I think that’s true for boats and remote casino, I think a Chicago casino could actually be a destination driver. I think some extra folks might want to come to Chicago and combine sightseeing with a casino trip - something they can’t do in NYC proper.
And while I’m generally not in favor of casinos, I’m sick of seeing people from Chicago go out to the boats and spend their money out there. I’d rather them spend it in the city, so I’d support a City casino.
- yinn - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 12:19 pm:
In the early aughts I worked the Kane County Flea Market for a season. Met a lot of great folks from all walks of life. While some bring out their wares as a hobby, others are literally trying to make enough to pay the rent. Sometimes frightened folks who didn’t recover their booth fees on Saturday would go to the boat Saturday night to try to cover their losses — even as they said they knew it was foolish. Scam it is, all right, and desperate people are more vulnerable. There are probably many more in that boat, and going to the boat, in 2010.
Still, I wouldn’t like to eliminate any gambling at this time. I know a couple of households staying afloat on blackjack dealing and casino security.
- BIG R.PH. - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 12:22 pm:
Are we going to let the new (and old) casinos actually compete with our neighboring states?
Can the gamblers smoke? Get over it Illinois—Gamblers smoke and drink. The more you let them smoke and drink the more they gamble and the State wins on all 3.
Will they let the casinos have unlimited gaming positions? Get over it Illinois! It doesn’t matter if a casino has 1500 positions
(1 position=1 slot machine, 1 poker machine or 1 seat at a table game) or 3000 positions. If a person is going to a casino to gamble that is what they are going to do.
In other words let your industry do what it needs to do to thrive instead of putting a heavy collar on it.
- anon - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 12:31 pm:
these are not “new” lotto games, they merely redirect the funds away from education and to the feel good issue of the day.
- Leatherneck318 - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 12:44 pm:
*Unrelated*….but was wondering why no coverage on CapFax re: Walker & the IPRB nonsense. Guy’s worked all of 1 day in 17 months @ an $85k+ a year job/”position” given to him by PQ.
- Phineas J. Whoopee - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 1:03 pm:
I wonder when IL got hit with a stupid stick. There is a reason why there are casinos surrounding the borders of our state all vying to take our cash. Couldn’t we try just a little to take others money instead of being constant suckers.
A quality casino near McCormick place and Rosemont would do the trick. Slots at the airports? Maybe some of our own border casinos might drag some of them across the line. BTW, it’s not just South Suburban folks headed to Indiana, it’s from the entire metro area. Who knows, maybe just the threat of a casino near Indiana would get them to kick back to our state.
We need to get smart and take others money while keeping our own.
- Gregor - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 1:11 pm:
My objection to more “gaming” expansion is, it doesn’t bring in enough tourism to pay for itself; no high-rolling Arab Sheiks are going to rush to land their Gulfstreams at O’Hare or Midway because local horse tracks now have slot machines or video poker. No, most gambling is done locally, within a ten mile radius of the casino, so it is slicing up ever-smaller wedges of the same old pie.
Moreover, and my biggest objection: gambling takes most of the money it earns out of state and out of local economic circulation. That was money that could have been spent here to buy durable goods and services, to put in the bank, or to invest in something like owning a home, starting a business, getting a degree, all of which would have brought tax revenue and secondary economic effects here, where we need them. Any job creation from additional casinos will be limited to relatively few and low-wage jobs. The big money all goes to Vegas, and Illinois gets a very small cut for all we’ve given away.
This is a good deal for a very select few that are backing the expanson, but not good for the state. It builds nothing, it creates no wealth. It could lead to more crime. It is parasitic. making it voluntary doesn’t excuse any of these negatives.
- Been There - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 1:37 pm:
===gambling takes most of the money it earns out of state and out of local economic circulation===
Gregor, the whole idea of giving slots to the racetracks is to help out the horsemen in the industry. Their share of the proceeds will be spent throughout Illinois, helping to support their local agricultural economy. The hay farmers, vets, feed stores, etc. Other states that have allowed slots at their tracks have proved the benefits of helping the horseracing industry.
- OneMan - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 1:39 pm:
== Rich is right that gambling is a tax on people who can’t do math, but wrong that its a voluntary tax. If we believe that, then we have to believe that every scam that people fall for “voluntarily” should be legal. ==
The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math, it is a much worse bet than anything in the casino besides perhaps Kino…
That being said, something to keep the folks who stream into Indiana here to gamble may not be a bad thing.
- fed up - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 1:45 pm:
Quinn needs to make more cuts before trying to pass his “education surcharge” which is really a corruption tax.
How Many more ghost employees has Quinn been taking care of. The state cant pay its bills but can take care of Quinns friends and political backers
“A former state prison director has worked just one day in the 17 months since he was appointed by Gov. Pat Quinn to a little-known but important state board that decides if inmates should be paroled, according to documents and interviews.
Roger Walker Jr. attended a half-day orientation but has been absent from every meeting of the full Illinois Prisoner Review Board except for one session about three weeks after his appointment in June 2009, records show.”
These inside deals by BlagoQuinn are what is bankrupting the state. Yeah Quinn is squeaky clean between these types of deal and the bought and paid for union endorsements Quinn is dirtier than Blago.
- zatoichi - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 1:51 pm:
Are all these plans based on an endless supply of gamblers regardless of how many casinos are built? If the current casino load has 50,000 spots are there really 50,000 more people willing to step up and be regular gamblers?
- rudy - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 1:57 pm:
At Illinois harness tracks, the aggregate purses are now lower than they were in 1967. Purses increase or decline as the total amounts wagered (handle) varies. Racing handle has declined in recent decades because of ubiquitous casinos and unregulated off-shore internet betting operators who create their own betting pools.
Other states have protected their racing industries by allowing slots at tracks and requiring a percentage of the proceeds to boost purses, which benefits horse owners, breeding farms, trainers, veterinarians, grooms, etc. This legislation would enable Illinois racing to again compete with Indiana, NY, Ky, Toronto, Pa–which already have them. The racing jobs, farms and owners are migrating to these states. In Illinois, this legislation would promote job retention, fairness, and gambling diversity.
- fed up - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 2:01 pm:
The gambling bill will help keep some money in Illinois that is flowing to casinos in other states. I wouldnt mind seeing slots and video gaming at Midway and Ohare as a revenue source also.
- Doug Dobmeyer - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 2:39 pm:
Government at whatever level job is to lead, not be part of a plan to part people from their money through gambling or other means.
Forces are again at work to bring a casino to Chicago with 4,000 gambling positions and three other locations for 3,600 positions. Wait there is more - the proposed bill would allow 6,300 gambling machines at Illinois’ six horse tracks. And there is even more, 800 more gambling positions at existing and new casinos for a total of 10,400 more gambling positions. Finally, the state in the midst of a budget emergency would allocate money to County Fairs to conduct wagering on horse racing and all riverboats may become land-based casinos.
Look at that proposal and use common sense. This proposal has been around before and failed. The proposal is a great scheme for legislators to milk the gamblers for more campaign contributions.
And why would anyone want to hand a corrupt city like Chicago more opportunity to be corrupt.
In the end it’s all about the money. Let’s not be stupid and hand Daley et al a bigger corruption shovel.
Doug Dobmeyer
- Ghost - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 2:40 pm:
If you really want to bring in some dollars, put slots at the airport and grab some of those transient dollarsform folks doing layovers etc. Heck put a casino next to the airport as well.
- Skeeter - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 2:42 pm:
As somebody who lives within sight of Navy Pier, my real concern with gambling in Chicago is that politics are going to screw that up.
To be effective, the casino needs to attract people who don’t live here. The goal should be to help it attract convenioners (Chicago weather beats the heck out of LV weather between May and October).
There are going to be demands to build one in areas that are not tourist friendly. If you put a casino in Englewood, conventioners are not going to go. And unforunately, that’s what I see happening.
As much as I think a casino in Chicago is a good idea, I just don’t see the City or State doing it right.
- Rich Miller - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 2:44 pm:
===There are going to be demands to build one in areas that are not tourist friendly. ===
I doubt that’ll happen because it’s never been brought up in the almost 20 years the city has sought a license.
As for O’Hare, well, that would’ve made the most sense, but it went to Des Plaines, instead, which makes less sense.
- Bill - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 2:52 pm:
Skeets,
Little Dick wants the casino, if there is one, at Michael Reese but may have a hard time getting that dump torn down. Watch for the bulldozers to come out at midnight again.
- Bill - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 2:54 pm:
Hey Doug,
Isn’t it all about money with you too? Your business with be booming with a new casino. Next to Jones high school would be a good spot.
- CLJ - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 3:06 pm:
When are we to expect a joint press release from Topinka-Rutherford calling for the merger of their offices? I thought that was their main campaign pledge!
- wordslinger - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 3:22 pm:
Navy Pier is too congested already;it couldn’t handle a casino.
Daley’s leaving, so the McCormick Place area is in play. In addition to Michael Reese, the oldest Mac Place Building is worthless, it has to come down. That’s a lot of prime real estate.
- D.P. Gumby - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 4:24 pm:
This gambling scam is just another excuse to not address the anachronistic tax structure in Illinois. There is nothing to gain or lose except to distract from the real issue. The jobs provided are low level and as demeaning as fast food and the money, though a voluntary tax, is generally coming from those who can least afford it. As public policy we stoop to gambling so the rich can avoid paying income tax.
- Here Now - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 5:00 pm:
SB3970
- Yellow Dog Democrat - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 5:12 pm:
The whole idea of a Chicago casino as a tourist destination is absurd.
The Economics of gambling are pretty simple: unless you’re in Las Vegas, Atlantic City, or Monte Carlo, you’re much better off spending your advertising dollars attracting repeat customers who live close by.
If gambling was about going after tourists, area casinos wouldn’t be spending their advertising dollars on Chicago t.v.
Who are they really competing over? 2 - 5% of gamblers suffer from gambling addiction.
- hisgirlfriday - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 5:40 pm:
YDD,
I don’t think any of us seeing a casino as a tourist benefit is arguing that a casino would make Chicago a destination for tourists who weren’t already coming here.
But it could be something to get people spending more money in Chicago while they are here whether it be as a tourist during the summer looking to spend a few hours doing something in an air-conditioned setting that isn’t walking around a museum or a conventioneer out at McCormick Place wanting to unwind at the end of the night by playing blackjack for a couple of hours.
- The Ghost of Shadrach Bond - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 5:59 pm:
Other than gaming at the horse tracks (Arlington Park, Balmoral Park in Crete, Hawthorne in Cicero), a McPier facility and something in central Illinois, if there’s any need or demand for any other locations. Downtown, Arlington Heights, Cicero, Crete, and Danville would cover it, wouldn’t it?
- The Ghost of Shadrach Bond - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 6:00 pm:
Amend that. Meant to say, I’m not sure of there’s any need or demand for casinos beyond those facilities.
- ARGHH!!!!! - Wednesday, Nov 10, 10 @ 9:37 pm:
I’ve never known Governor Quinn to change his mind on anything. (smirk)
- Vote Quimby! - Thursday, Nov 11, 10 @ 7:28 am:
Ghost of S. Bond…there is also Fairmount Park in the Metro East. There are at least SEVEN casinos within an hours drive (2 in IL, 5 in MO) of this horse racing track.
- downstate hack - Thursday, Nov 11, 10 @ 10:05 am:
Slots at the horse tracks is a no brainer, as long as the tracks are required to invest a substantial amount of their income in horse racing. Horse racing creates jobs and Illinois could again be a leader in the industry and complete for major racing events for Arlington. Look what the casino did for Gulfstream in Florida.
- Excessively Rabid - Thursday, Nov 11, 10 @ 10:42 am:
I think gambling is stupid and I’m against government being involved in it on any level. But I’m ready to throw in the towel on this. Sensible gaming expansion may have to be part of a sound plan to get the state in the black. I remain extremely suspicious of those involved in this industry and those making deals concerning it. And dubious that the taxpayers will get what they ought to out of it.